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Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth!

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Craig

10-19-2003 12:29:18

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Sorry guys but I have to vent alittle steam. The other evening I drove out of state 3 1/2 hours to look at a tractor. I'm not going to use any peoples names or brands here. The ad had basically said museum and flawless restoration. Also it was suppose to be a very rare model. NOT!!! What a waste of time. This person uses this site alot and I hope I'm the only one that he has disappointed. Some of you guys { a small few} need to look the word restored up in the dictionary or atleast understand it. It doesn't mean jumping on the tractor and drive by a couple of your friends using spray cans to paint it as it goes by. Some --not all-- of you auctioneers need to do a better job of NOT stretching the truth also. I don't know how many auctions I've been to that the sale bill said: completely restored-or mint-or expo. Understand what these words mean please. Look at tractors that are truly restored like: Gary Ukens, Dan Peterman, or Duane Ver Ploeg here from Iowa--then you'll see what I mean. One other thing: Try and get some history on these tractors before you sell them. Don't say one owner and then have NO idea who owned it. I have written and signed documentation as to previous owners on all my expo tractors. I would think the value of those tractors would be greatly improved because of this. I'm sure I'm going to take some heat from someone about this but this is the way I see it. I feel better now.

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Willy-N

10-20-2003 08:38:24

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

I have yet to find anything that was 50 years old that did not need some fixen. Take the price of a new tractor compaired to a old one and there is a BIG difference in the two prices. Then it is hard to expect both tractors to be in the same condition. But if you pay new prices for a old tractor you should get a Nice one. If it is 15,000.00 or more in less money don't expect a Nice one with out any problems sorta the saying you get what you pay for and some times you get luckey and find a pretty good old one. I just spent about what it costs for a old tractor to fix up the used flat bed I bought for my GMC and it dose not even have a drive train and I just put new wood, painted, re/wired and put new lights on it. Mark H.

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Garry

10-20-2003 09:11:32

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Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Willy-N, 10-20-2003 08:38:24

I don't like to be misled eather but most of the tractors on this site sell for about what a riding lawnmower cost, but these are 50 year old tractors. I've had new riding lawnmowers last less than a year. My point is I usually expect the old tractors to have problems, but if the seller advertised a tractor to be restored or expo condition the tractor should be in very good condition. I don't use those words but I will describe what has been done to the tractor.

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Willy-N

10-20-2003 09:49:14

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Re: Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the tr in reply to Garry, 10-20-2003 09:11:32

There are mis/leading adds and tractors out there. I myself have never seen a Expo Tractor that was Mint, seems it would be one that was hardly ever used and probley not sold on eBay or on the YT Mag Site. With out tearing the tractor completely apart to inspect it the insides it is kind of up in the air as being good and if they are working at the time sold who knows when they will break. Fixing one to hide a problem and mis/leading the buyer is wrong. Mark H.

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Paul

10-20-2003 07:58:50

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

This just goes back to when a man's word meant something. There was a time when a deal was sealed with a handshake but those times have gone. It's a shame that the tractors we all are interested in have survived but the ethics and integrity that most of the people that used them had hasn't.

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Rauville

10-20-2003 05:31:11

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Would it be ethical to have a forum where you could ask for the opinions and experiences of others who have done business with particular sellers on this site? It's hard to be a motivated buyer when you have no idea as to whom you are dealing with. Asking questions of sellers and getting answers such as: "Runs real good, but needs carb. work." tells me nothing!
I know the vast majority of sellers are trying to be honest, but it would be great to hear from some of their satisfied customers (if any).
Probably the whole idea would create more problems than solving. But, there really needs to be some way for prospective buyers to feel comfortable when jumping into the unknown realm of buying tractors by computer.
Just some early morning thoughts...thanks for listening.

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Indydirtfarmer

10-20-2003 04:03:48

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

First, let me say that when you buy a tractor "at auction", you are more likely than not, going to get something that someone else is "trying to get rid of". Some private, or estate sales don't fall into this catagory. I buy and sell around 15 tractors a year. (I'd sell more, if people would buy more!) This year has seen 17 so far. I DO NOT and WILL NOT "INTENTIONALLY" mis-lead anyone. I won't sell anything that I wouldn't use myself. HOWEVER.....I'm not going to run out to all my "potential buyers" and start telling them "everything that's wrong". If you're buying a used tractor, you should EXPECT it to be in "USED" condition. A tractor starts well, but the battery 5 years old? No, they can see that for themselves. The rods knock when it warms up? Well it wouldn't be for sale at my place. Not everyone will stand behind their "product". Some won't even stand NEAR it. The best way to make certain you "get what you pay for", is to be an informed buyer. Over the years, I've bought and sold about 350 tractors. I've got burned on a few too. (Including a "fairly new" one last summer. I bought it from a dealer that I DID business with for years. He knew what was wrong, and failed to tell me. It was an $7500 repair.) You can't always trust some people, when it comes to money.

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Oldfarmboy Jim

10-19-2003 23:33:23

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Buying a tractor at an auction is like buying a pig in a poke. You don't know what you're getting. Therefore, bid low and have low expectations. Never feel disappointed that some Rube beat you out of a concours condition rare gem of a tractor. When he gets home and opens up that poke, he'll find that pig turned out to be a polecat! Then of course, he'll be glad to sell it to you at a bargain price. Look, if someone rips you off and refuses to make good, PLEASE do us all a favor and NAME NAMES! As long as you honestly relate what happened, no harm can come. But by hiding the identity of the bandit, you make the rest of us potential victims of the same thief. Let a little sunlight shine under that rock and watch what kind of vermin come scurrying out. That's my take on the subject. Jim
P.S. If it sounds too good to be true, guess what? It's not TRUE.

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Jonesy

10-19-2003 18:34:12

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Hello, You really need to state names, locations and equipment as this sight does not have a buyers and sellers feedback such as Ebay. Please help out the next guy that might make the same mistake. I try to discibe best I can when I sell because my biggest fear is that someone wont be pleased with what they are getting. As we all know, a picture can make a tractor look 100 times better than it really is. Also it doesnt hurt to list the names of people that you have done good dealings with.

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ray

10-19-2003 19:28:54

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Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Jonesy, 10-19-2003 18:34:12

Jonsey,How would you police such a site? I don't
know you,but I could post you ripped me off.What
if someone was jealious or had a bone to pick with
someone for something that didn't concern tractors.Then you have yuppies that expect a
50 year old tractor to be brand new.I had one
complain because a fan belt broke 6 months after
he bought a tractor from me.Whoever you post
about is going to come back and post something
about you.

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Ray

10-19-2003 18:04:16

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

My gripe is people backing out of deals,I've
bought tractors over the phone only to find
the seller changed his mine,sold it to someone
else for $50 more,or listened to someone who
told him he sold it to cheap,(usually another
buyer).I've had checks returned,or one time
drove 300 miles to pick a tractor up to be told "I decided not to sell it" (a week later
is was at an auction)

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Greenjunk

10-19-2003 20:19:33

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Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Ray, 10-19-2003 18:04:16

You said it! Men are worse than kids. My grandfather always told me "son always stay hitched"

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amertrac

10-19-2003 17:30:10

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

you guys are causing ne to start to worry i am planing a ttip to fetch a tractor that is the brand i collect and i don't relish haulin an 20 ft trailer over two toll bridges and 300 miles for nothing but as you i have done itand probably do it agian

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Red Tail Hawk

10-19-2003 17:13:31

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

We publish the best dressed Actors' and the worst dressed' and we all grab that mag. to see whos' who. We must do the same with BAD tractor people and we will save each other a lot of pain. I also hate the word organic all it did was Double the selling Price. And most people Don't hold a government certificate

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Shane

10-19-2003 17:41:04

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Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Red Tail Hawk, 10-19-2003 17:13:31

If you think about it long enough, everything is organic. I mean, every thing comes from this earth and everything on earth is organic therefore everything grown is grown using organic materials and everything is organic. Wow, repeated several words there! You know this all stems from those tree huggers.

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10-20-2003 04:03:48

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Re: Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the tr in reply to Shane, 10-19-2003 17:41:04

being a third party what he means is that the chemical and technical definition of Organic means raised or produced in an aerobic or oxygen environment. Since our atmosphere is 8-12% oxygen most all items fit in this category. So all agriculture products would fit this defintion. Example stores sell organic milk-milk comes from mammals(classical cows)that have to have oxygen to live and produce that product so in essence all milk is organic. The term organic in the marketing sense means clean/pure/traditional/ ie family farm. Although most of the organic items stem from the more modern methods. What policing agency exists and how do we stop the contamination of the flow of these products with other items In summary the word ( as used) organic is just a marketing term to increase sells and most of the time is deceptive in nature.Have I confused you enough

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Brent in Iowa

10-20-2003 10:36:57

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell th in reply to jf, 10-20-2003 04:03:48

As a fourth party here...I must add that in chemistry "organic" means that it is a compound that contains carbon. As posted, just about everything we grow, raise, eat, etc... contains carbon. You could even package dirt (soil) and sell it as "Organic" except that the legislators have deemed "organic" to mean something totally different. They are labelling it as being grown/raised without "synthetic" or man-made chemicals such as fertilizers and pesticides, although they are "chemically" organic as they contain carbon just like cow manure and other "natural" chemicals do.

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Alberta Mike

10-19-2003 20:49:01

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Re: Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the tr in reply to Shane, 10-19-2003 17:41:04

Don't want to sound disrespectful or anything but what the heck are you talking about? Can't seem to make any sense out of your post whatever!

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jimNCal

10-19-2003 16:21:52

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Forget about jabbing the culprits' conscience guys.
If they had one they wouldn't act like that. I don't think you are doing any of us any justice by leaving out their names or locations either. I consider a lot of you guys as those that I owe do to the TONS of time and $ your input on these boards has saved me. If I come across a skunk like that, I'm gonna do my best to see that he does it to as few in future as possible. Just the way I treat any run of the mill vermin.
jim

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10-19-2003 15:08:02

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

unfortunately the old saying of "buyer beware" is still in force, especially now days with the internet in place and so many people out to make a quick buck. You have my sympathy.

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520-LP

10-19-2003 15:04:05

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

At least you got to see the tractor an tell him what you thought.I recently talked to a guy on thur. night at 10:30 and told him I would take the tractor he had advertized and would be there to pick it up friday evening when he got in from work.I left friday morning and after a couple of hrs. on the road stopped at McDonalds for breakfeast leaving my cell in the truck. I got up the road 300 mile and pick up the ph.and had a message from his wife that he had sold the tractor on thur. night.

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JWW

10-19-2003 14:52:26

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

That is why I buy local now. If its not close, I won't get it. I too like another gentleman trusted someone from pictures and sent him the money for the tractor. It wasn't to be expo or anything, but it was suppose to be COMPLETE. There were six items missing off of the tractor and guess what, he never would return any calls or emails. It is someone that uses this site a lot also, so don't worry about venting, I think any of us would be the same way. JWW

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stan

10-19-2003 13:42:20

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

What is even worse is when something is advertised as good and you send the money to canada (1,200)and it arrives, in San Diego area, and it is a piece of junk. That's what is bad. This was not a tractor part , but a Indian motorcycle part. The guy was a good salesman, and I trusted him.It is not a complete loss, part of it is in the iron pile, and I will get 1/2 cent per lb when the iron is sold. I should clear 50 cents. Got to pull the starter on my M/F have a good week.Stan

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Rick

10-19-2003 13:18:11

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

There is that word again, expo. What is an expo tractor. I assume it is one that some people think is good enough to take to a tractor expo, that`s a bunch of crap. And the word expo paint job, crap again.

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Alberta Mike

10-19-2003 12:56:25

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

I think the general rule must be that the further you drive, the bigger the disappointment when you get there. Never seems to happen on a quick 15 minute trip, just the long ones. And no need to apologize for ventine, posts like yours will be read by a few of the culprits and maybe they'll get their eyes opened that it is a bad thing to misrepresent something like that, especially considering distances involved.

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Jim in NM (was UK)

10-19-2003 12:46:35

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Hey, I know what you're talking about. My father bought a Farmall B that was in "restored condition" a couple of years ago from a local in the area. It had a quick shot of paint and that was about it. The generator wasn't even installed on it when he finally delivered it. It will need brakes, clutch, and a few bearings to name a few things. The man almost ruined the rear wheels on it because he towed it to the farm with them loose. Had to use the multi-purpose fire wrench in order to remove the too small bolts and nuts in order to put the correct ones on it. I have known that man for over twenty years and always thought that he was better than that. This is one of the reasons I hope to get into the repair, restoration, and buying and selling of these vintage pieces of American History. Not only do I enjoy them, I also think that people should get what they pay for when they buy something.

later days mate,
Jim

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Allan

10-19-2003 12:40:03

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Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Craig, 10-19-2003 12:29:18

Craig,

Nope, you are not going to take heat from anyone because you are 100% correct.

Three weeks ago, I likewise made a 300 mile goose run....'taint fun and 'ole Johnny Paint Can did't pay for the wasted fuel & time either.

Allan

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Rusty Jones/ The Mower Ma

10-19-2003 21:07:03

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Re: Re: Misrepresenting tractors---tell the truth! in reply to Allan, 10-19-2003 12:40:03

Well, like Mrs. Barnum said as she filled the baby bottle--there's another sucker born every minute! Misrepresenting something for sale is going on all the time. And anybody who sends $1200 to some guy they have never met, for something they haven't seen, is asking to get "trimmed"! And furthermore, the names of the cheaters should be posted on this site, to protect the trusting souls who should know better than to send money for an unseen item! The crooks should be discarded from YT asap! RJ

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