Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Discussion Forum

Super M vs. Farmall 350

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Farmall 1206

10-23-2001 18:48:11




Report to Moderator

I have a bet going with a neighbor. I say they are basically the same HP, with the 350 having more pulling power. Am I right? Where can I find the info to solve this. I will need proof!




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
The Dukester

10-24-2001 19:12:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
This is a common comparison, it is often deliberated among John Deere guys whether a late styled straight gas A could keep up with a late styled stock G. Or say, a Massey 333 against a earlier 44. Well, in farm use such as heavy plowing or tillage work, or hooked to a field chopper cutting some of those ensilage corn varieties we used to see(featured a stalk like your wrist), the heavier built tractor with the bigger engine, cu. in. wise, with the same, or slightly more horsepower had the advantage. But, in "runnin' around kind of work", planting, cultivating, and even plowing, the smaller, but same horsepower tractor seemed to have what it took to do more work, that is, to accomplish more on less fuel and less operator fatigue. It's hard to define what everyone wants in a tractor, some people like a big, heavy, tractor, just like they like a 1 ton pickup to drive, some like a smaller, nimble, "sassy-gutsy" tractor and a lighter 1/2 ton pickup with the biggest engine option they can get. I had a Super M, I didn't like loaded tires so I had 3 wheelweights on the right driver and 4 on the left. I pulled 3-16's in a JD 555 plow, or No. 37 10-1/2 ft. disk in 3rd gear in every situation except where it was too stoney and I couldn't keep 'em in the ground. With 14.9-38's that tractor rolled right along in 3rd about 2 notches from wide open. I did have to drop back to 2nd plowing alfalfa-quackgrass sod. I never had or ran a 350, but I really don't think a 350 could'da cut it. I'd have liked to have a 350 for all my other work, TA, independant PTO, easier steering, lower fuel use were great advantages. After 10, 12, 14, hours on the SM, I slept pretty good.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
john d

10-24-2001 19:10:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
It may be worth noting that looking at Nebraska tests for 40 to 50 year old tractors is a start, but shouldn't necessarily be the ending point in exploring this issue.

Unless that SM has been lovingly restored to its original state, has been languishing in a shed somewhere and never used much, or is so old and tired that it needs CPR, it probably puts out more hp than it did when it left the factory! Many (if not most) farmers upgraded those beasties with IH or M&W goodies when they needed an overhaul. The same often happened with other models, including the 350, but the SM simply had more raw material to work with in searching for more power. Lots of the old M-SM tractors will dyno at 50 to 55 hp. Not many 300-350 models will do that.

The 300-350 models were derived from the H line. They were more powerful, and had lots of improvements. They're a little more refined than the M and SM tractors, but they lack that incredible reserve of power that the M-SM lines had.

Lots of farmers (and IH mechanics) turned the governors up on the 300-350 models to the same level the 300-350 Utility models were set by the factory. This gave them a little boost. The TA option gave them another advantage in the field. But when you work a 300 or 350 side-by-side with an M or SM and do the same work, the 300-350 model is using about all it has to get the job done. By comparison, the M or SM will likely not be working to its limit.

That's not to say that someone can't find a particular 350 that will outwork a particular SM in the field. In most cases, however, it likely can't. When I was a 140 lb. high school kid, I could handle bales of hay at the same rate as some guys bigger and stronger than I was. But at the end of the day, I was probably a lot more tired...

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
use both

10-24-2001 17:46:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
simply pull a bush hog with both and the M has better power under conditions, 350 has a nicer ride from power steering and seat closer to wheel but i will take the m any day over it. the 350 gears are faster though.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
TP from Central PA

10-24-2001 13:57:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
I disagree with alot of people here. My neighbors 300 which is basically stock would give my SM-TA one he** of a run for it's money in the field!, and my M-TA has a 281 under the hood! I think it is very possible that a 350 could walk all over a SM. Rember that a 300 is basically the same HP wise as the old "M", even though it is a decendent of the "H", so the 350 has to be close to the "Super M".

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RAW in IA

10-24-2001 10:54:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
I grew up with a 350 adn a few years after I moved out, dad bought a staight M. I was out plowing with him one day, with 3-16's on each. I drove the M, and could pass the 350 about every four rounds,a nd at the end of the day, it burned less fuel. I liked the 350, but any good M or Super M will outpull it,.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
val

10-24-2001 10:26:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
I have both of these tractors. The SM is kind of worn out and the 350 is rebuilt including the TA. With the 3-14 Little Genius plow, the SM can run in 3rd gear (5 mph) with no problem. The 350 can only run in 2nd (4 mph) and I sometimes need the TA up hills. The SM has 14.9-38's and the 350 has 13.6-38's. Both have liquid in the tires and 1 set of weights. I still like the 350 over the SM. My 450 has quite a bit more power that the SM.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
val

10-24-2001 10:25:58




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
I have both of these tractors. The SM is kind of worn out and the 350 is rebuilt including the TA. With the 3-14 Little Genius plow, the SM can run in 3rd gear (5 mph) with no problem. The 350 can only run in 2nd (4 mph) and I sometimes need the TA up hills. The SM has 14.9-38's and the 350 has 13.6-38's. Both have liquid in the tires and 1 set of weights. I still like the 350 over the SM. My 450 has quite a bit more power that the SM.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
chucko

10-24-2001 04:36:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
nebraska tests #475 and #611 they tested a super m and a 350.
test G max pull for SM says 5676 pound pull.
test G max pull for 350 says 6457 pound pull chucko



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Red Dave

10-24-2001 07:04:31




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to chucko, 10-24-2001 04:36:16  
Chucko, did the test specify the ground speed achieved for that pull? The Super M should have 10 or 15 more horses and make the pull at a higher speed.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
chucko

10-24-2001 14:33:36




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Red Dave, 10-24-2001 07:04:31  
Red Dave, The 350 pulled 6,457 lbs. at 1.5 mph. The SM pulled 5,676 lbs at 2.45 mph. The 350 had TA engaged and that allowed it to pull the most weight with less HP. chucko



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Steven

10-23-2001 19:22:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
A Super M would probably pull more than a 350, depending upon the condition of each tractor. The Super M was updated to Super MTA, then to the 400 and on to the 450.

A 350 is a super updated H. Josh is correct.

Steven



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
JDJIM

10-23-2001 21:00:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Steven, 10-23-2001 19:22:49  
No matter what the paper shows Super M has got to have more power , a lot bigger engine , more torque . It's been a while . but wouldn't a good stock SM put out 55 or so hp ? I don't think a 350 is within 10 hp of that . We have a H and a M don't do much with them now but back when there was a big difference . A 350 is about the same as a Super H isn't it ? JIM



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Chuck

10-24-2001 13:40:06




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to JDJIM, 10-23-2001 21:00:23  
I don't know directly about the 350 v SM question having never run the two together. I do know that an M that was M&W equipted would run side by side with a 450 having done this with my cousin, he favored the 450 over the M for operational considerations but not power. However please don't run down the H's/SH's. I owned a 48 H with M&W pistons and govenor that I favored over a JD G and D-17 that I owned at the same time. That H would flat pull, I used it with a 12'6" Kewanee disc and supprised many people. The best tale about is in stump-pulling with a neighbor we hooked the H with a AC WD-45 and every time we hit a though one I pulled him backwards.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Josh

10-23-2001 19:04:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Farmall 1206, 10-23-2001 18:48:11  
A 350 is basically a modernized H and I don't think it can pull near as much as a super M.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ray,IN

10-23-2001 19:47:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Josh, 10-23-2001 19:04:20  
An IH 350 has 40.4 drawbar HP, and a IH super M has 41.7 drawbar HP. Draw your own conclusions petaining to the 1.3 HP difference. I don't think anyone could tell the difference in the field, if all else was equal.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Terry

10-23-2001 21:11:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Ray,IN, 10-23-2001 19:47:03  
Was reading the posts am positive a Super M would out pull a 350. Also the Super M was around 47 horse forget excatly now but way more then 41. terry



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jakee

10-23-2001 21:44:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Terry, 10-23-2001 21:11:59  
the super M will out pull the 350 in a dead pull of--- remember the super M has a 1 inche longer stroke---more torque.but the 350 is a mutch nicer tractor to run in the field, and it is a lot more tractor than a super H. also the 350 most of them had a TA unitalso remember the super m had almost 100 cubic inches on the 350--also most super M,s had larger tires for a better foot print on the ground-- tires make a diffrence-- look at the WD-45 one tuff tractor , but no tires.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

10-24-2001 01:47:48




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to jakee, 10-23-2001 21:44:28  
I havnt seen figures lately, but I seem to remember the 350 at aprox. 40-41 hp pto on Nebraska test The super M is just under 50 hp. pto I will stand corrected, but I beleive the 450 was the first Farmall to top 50 hp. pto at Nebraska. The Farmall 350 is also quite unique as the drawbar hp is very close to its pto hp.,compared to other tractors.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jeff

10-24-2001 19:06:09




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-24-2001 01:47:48  
When everybody talks about HP that is only one dimension of the equation. You have to include torque which equates to lugging ability. The torque is related to the engines strokes and displacement. In the case of the SM, you may have teh same horsepower, but the torque can be dramatically different because of the speed you make the HP rating at. I would certainly opt for the SM when it came to doing a days plowing. You can not dismiss the 350's operator comfort features however. That's my 2 cents worth.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Jeremy

10-24-2001 22:05:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to jeff, 10-24-2001 19:06:09  
One more part of the equation you guys seem to be missing is weight! The super M weighs considerably more than the 350. Weight = traction.

The Super M was 47.5 belt HP and 42 drawbar HP.

The first IH made tractor to break the 50HP mark was the W-9. I can't remember exactly what the rated HP was.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jeff

10-24-2001 19:05:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-24-2001 01:47:48  
When every body talks about HP that is only one diemnsion of the equation. You have to include torque which equates to lugging ability. The torque is related to the engines strokes and displacement. In the case of the SM, you may have teh same horsepower, but the torque can be dramatically different because of the speed you make the HP rating at. I would certainly opt for the SM when it came to doing a days plowing. You can not dismiss the 350's operator comfort features however. That's my 2 cents worth.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

10-28-2001 05:04:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to jeff, 10-24-2001 19:05:28  
Jeremy; W9 was not a FARMALL.Jeff, I beleive Nebraska tests compensate for torque, etc. In my previous entry into this discussion, I was quoting from menory. Its been 20 years since Ihave looked at ratings on those old Farmalls. While I have never owned a 350, I do have some experience. I have owned an H, super M, 300, 504, 560D, 656D and a 1066, along with several A,sA 130. My farm probably clocked 30,000 hours on these tractors.What I will repeat is that I have never seen a Nebraska test where drawbar and pto horsepower were as close as in the Farmall 350. If I did not make clear before I do think the Farmall 350 and super M would be a close match on a drawbar pull. On 4,000 hours work I will pick the super M

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jeff

10-24-2001 19:04:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-24-2001 01:47:48  
When every body talks about HP that is only one diemnsion of the equation. You have to include torque which equates to lugging ability. The torque is related to the engines strokes and displacement. In the case of the SM, you may have teh same horsepower, but the torque can be dramatically different because of the speed you make the HP rating at. I would certainly opt for the SM when it came to doing a days plowing. You can not dismiss the 350's operator compfort features. That's my 2 cents worth.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
jeff

10-24-2001 19:04:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Super M vs. Farmall 350 in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-24-2001 01:47:48  
When every body talks about HP that is only one diemnsion of the equation. You have to include torque which equates to lugging ability. The torque is related to the engines strokes and displacement. In the case of the SM, you may have teh same horsepower, but the torque can be dramatically different because of the speed you make the HP rating at. I would certainly opt for the SM when it came to doing a days plowing. You can not dismiss the 350's operator compfort features. That's my 2 cents worth.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy