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Tractor Transporting Discussion Forum

CDL-hazmat

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BenRauls

04-26-2008 06:26:42




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Am looking to see what the rules are for hazmat. Where i work we build a 2500 gal. 8 wheel drive tanker truck. Before i take the truck on the road for its road test they fill the tank and run the pump to make sure everything works and there are no leaks then the tank is emptied. Even with the little bit of residue left in the tank do i need hazmat?
Ben




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caterpillar guy

05-25-2008 10:15:23




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to BenRauls, 04-26-2008 06:26:42  
I was under the understanding that if it didn't require placards then no hazmat. I was talking to a driver that was moving tanks for either aviation use or military use. That they do just as mentioned in this post. And said that because of the bit left in the tank it was hazmat due to the residue.



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Ben Rauls

04-28-2008 01:09:09




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to BenRauls, 04-26-2008 06:26:42  
Thaks for th replys
Ben



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john in la

04-26-2008 07:12:50




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to BenRauls, 04-26-2008 06:26:42  
Do they fill the tank with hazmat to check for leaks (not likely) or do they use water?????

If the tank has ever had a hazmat in it and has NOT been steamed cleaned out there is still fumes from the product in it so yes you would need a hazmat license.

The short answer is..... .....
If the tank has a placard on it you need a hazmat license.

What you really need is a tank endorsement. Any tank 1000 gals or over mounted to a truck or trailer is considered a tanker.

The tank endorsement is easy to get. The hazmat takes more because you need to be finger printed; have a federal back ground check; and pass a written test at the DMV. Unlike other test given by the DMV the hazmat test must be taken at every renewal.

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Ben Rauls

04-27-2008 16:33:52




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to john in la, 04-26-2008 07:12:50  
I have my tanker endorsment, and they do fill with jp-8 fuel. They have plackards when they leave our plant but another company gets them for testing, they take the plackards out, thats why i was questioning it.
Thanks Ben



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john in la

04-27-2008 18:48:19




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to Ben Rauls, 04-27-2008 16:33:52  

Ben Rauls said: (quoted from post at 16:33:52 04/27/08)
I have my tanker endorsment,
Good

they do fill with jp-8 fuel. They have plackards when they leave our plant
Then at this point you need a hazmat endorcment

but another company gets them for testing, they take the plackards out,

If they are taking the plackards off I have to assume the tanks are steamed clealed out of all residue so you do not need a hazmat endorcement

thats why i was questioning it.

I guess the correct person to ask is your boss or a rep for the other company. What you want to know is if the tank has been cleaned of all residue. If they say no; then I would be asking why have the plackards been removed.

Thanks Ben


Like I said before the simple answer is..... ...

If it has plackards on the tank you need a hazmat. If it does not have plackards on the tank you do not need a hazmat.

Now if someone removes the plackards without washing out the tank and you get stopped on the side of the road for an inspection you will be in double trouble.

1 no hazmat endorcement

2 running a hazmat load down the road without plackards

The law is very clear on tankers. If a load was required to be plackarded in a bulk tank the empty tank requires the same plackards because of fumes and residue as the loaded tank needed.

Think about it this way..... .

Gas; diesel; JP8; Kero: whatever DOES NOT burn.

Gas; diesel;JP8; kero; whatever fumes DO burn. In fact they explode. A empty gas tanker is more of a hazard than a full tank.

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davediehl@hotmail.com

04-27-2008 17:11:21




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to Ben Rauls, 04-27-2008 16:33:52  
If they fill it with JP8, yes. If its over 600 pounds of chemical or liquid, yes. Short answer, yes, and it will eliminate you questioning yourself.



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Dennis Benson

04-28-2008 05:38:12




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 04-27-2008 17:11:21  
When I got my DOT number and the policeman came out and interviewed me I forgot to ask this question. If I'm hauling big scrap propane tanks to the junk yard, is removing the valve sufficient, or do I need to cut a hole in the tank? Do I need hazmat for a scrap tank?



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davediehl@hotmail.com

04-29-2008 04:07:26




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to Dennis Benson, 04-28-2008 05:38:12  
Removing a valve is fine as long as the tank is empty. Since you are hauling tanks, I am assuming they are empty. If that is the case, the hazmat endorcement is not needed. You would have to be transporting 600 pounds of actual chemical or liquid for the requirement.



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Frank A

04-29-2008 19:15:45




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 04-29-2008 04:07:26  
My Missouri CDL manual states 1001 pounds including the package. It should be noted that also if placarded you must have shipping papers. Any ASME propane tank with more than 5% requires a permit and has special hauling requirements. Someone might be able to haul junk tanks with the valves removed and paint junk on the tanks. It might be worth a call to someone in the H.P. or DOT and get their name just in case.

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john in la

04-29-2008 18:48:14




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 04-29-2008 04:07:26  
Dave;
Can I ask where you are getting this 600 lb rule from that you have referred to twice in this string of post.

Lets eliminate any Table 1, 49 CFR 172.504 material because all the products mentioned in this post fall under Table 2, 49 CFR 172.504 material. We will also eliminate any rail or air shipments since we are talking truck transporting here.

It is my understanding that any truck that has less than 1001 lbs does not require placards.

§173.504(c)Exception for less than 454 kg (1,001 pounds). Except for bulk packaging and hazardous materials subject to §172.505, when hazardous materials covered by table 2 of this section are transported by highway or rail, placards are not required on --

§173.504 (c) (1)A transport vehicle or freight container which contains less than 454 kg (1001 pounds) aggregate gross weight of hazardous materials covered by table 2 of paragraph (e) of this section; or

§172.505 deals with POISON; RADIOACTIVE; and DANGEROUS WHEN WET so that does not apply here also.

Am I missing something here or are you quoting the wrong amount????

Thanks
John

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davediehl@hotmail.com

04-30-2008 18:25:28




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to john in la, 04-29-2008 18:48:14  
This is part of that scanned brochure that I posted a while back from the Indiana State Police. That is also from my the state master motor carrier inspector. Its 600 pounds here. Anything over needs the proper endorcements.



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john in la

04-30-2008 21:57:51




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 04-30-2008 18:25:28  
I would really like to see those scanned brochures again. I looked in the archives of this site but the link does not work anymore.

I really find it hard to believe that Indiana has a law different than all the other states in the union so I looked it up.

So now my question is..... ..
Why would the state give you a brochure and a state master motor carrier inspector book that shows different info than what the Indiana Commercial Driver’s License Test Booklet shows.
The CDL test booklet (page 101) for your state clearly says table 2 hazmat need placards for 1001 lbs and more. And it is my understanding that you need a hazmat license if you haul hazardous materials in quantities that requires placards.

Please explain to me what I am missing here.
Thanks

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Frank A

04-30-2008 19:25:34




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to davediehl@hotmail.com, 04-30-2008 18:25:28  
I'm suprised it would vary from state to state. As I said here in Missouri it is 1001 pounds including the container. [or as low as 20 pounds in case of poison gas] Also a permenant placard like a propane delivery truck it doesnt matter you need hazmat and shipping papers. I wonder about other states. And what about interstate hauling? Maybe should have started a new topic instead of a reply.



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john_bud

04-30-2008 19:47:32




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 Re: CDL-hazmat in reply to Frank A, 04-30-2008 19:25:34  
States can always make the laws more restrictive than the Federal standard, but they can't make it less.

jb



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