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Cleaning cast Aluminum?

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135 Fan

04-27-2007 21:50:31




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I've got a question for the TIG welders out there. What is the best cleaner for cast aluminum prior to welding? I've got a fairly intricate piece from the bowling equipment at work that needs to be welded and a new piece is unavailable. It has a kind of brown type grease on it that seems to get in the pores of the metal. It's not the best casting I've seen and I think it isn't the purest aluminum. I used Arcair all clean for aluminum and after wire brushing with a stainless wheel and grinding out a groove with an aluminum disc, I still had to put about 5 beads in to bring all the contamination to the top and grind each one out before I did the next one. Once I got it clean it welded really nice but was really frustrating to try to even get a puddle established to tack it together. I remember a friend that did a lot of aluminum saying there is a special type acid that works really well but he has since moved. Does anyone know what works the best? It would be nice to know for when we get another wierd piece to repair. I'm using a Miller synchowave 250 with the AC balance set almost on maximum cleaning (2) for the initial passes. I've got a couple books that might say but they are in storage. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Yes, even welders need advice on occasion. Thanks in advance. Dave

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Slowpoke

05-01-2007 23:55:03




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
Anyone ever tried brake cleaner? It's supposed to remove oil and grease. Just a thought. Never welded aluminum.



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RWT

04-28-2007 19:36:07




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
For what it is worth, a local guy uses acetone for final cleaning.

RT



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chuck davis

04-28-2007 19:06:25




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
I have done my share of aluminum and some castings are just about unweldable. Oil gas on top of that just make it worse. When impurities get impregnated into the casting it has to go somewhere and thats right to the surface.It sounds as though you are doing all you can.Good Luck



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mjbrown

04-28-2007 12:40:57




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
You have two cleaning issues to deal with. The grease and dirt in the grease and oxide on the aluminum. The starting fluid sounds like a good idea but it might carry the grease further into the cast pores. You might soak it in a solvent. For the oxide I use a product called Weld-O. Its pink and is an acid detergent. It does a nice job cleaning and deoxiding in one step. I got it at a welding store. Brush it on with an acid brush and watch it work. For tough stuff like you are doing use the brush to work it in. Rinse it well with water. The piece you are working on will need preheating no matter how clean it is and that may be why your first one welded better after several attempts put heat in the piece.

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TimV

04-28-2007 07:09:26




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
Don't know if it's relevant, but a friend in the trucking business does a LOT of aluminum welding on aluminum dump truck boxes, from repairs to full fabrication. He uses starting fluid--spray on, let it flash off, and weld. This is with a MIG and a spool gun, and like I said, it's nothing I've tried, but I wanted to pass it on.



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DNWELDMAN

04-28-2007 01:36:52




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-27-2007 21:50:31  
Hi dave. Even though I started out on the wrong foot here with you guys, I"d like to help. There are about a dozen different acids that about a dozen different people prefer. Meaning different people prefer different things. I Prefer Eagle one mag wheel cleaner. The kind for wheels without clearcoat. It actually foams up and eats away everything. When possible I like to glass bead, that"s the best. Also if possible I like to use the 3M buffing/polishing pads. That"s about all I use.

As far as your problem, you did the only thing you can do. Use the max cleaning side of the balance wave, and keep going over it till all the dirt is gone. I"ve done ALOT of aluminum over the years, and let me tell ya, It"s a fussy alloy. Sometimes you can scub until there"s no tommorrow, and still not get it all. And other times you think you"ll run into problems because of dirt, and it will be fine. I can"t figure it out. Welding Magnesium is the same way. Being it was cast aluminum did"t help matters any. Some of those castings can be real bad. Doug

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DNWELDMAN

04-28-2007 01:50:40




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to DNWELDMAN, 04-28-2007 01:36:52  
I forgot to mention that if(after arc is established) you move back and forth over the joint(without adding filler) alot of dirt will surface. Then clean it off and repeat a couple of times. This will get rid of most. Doing this also helps with the preheating on thicker stuff. Most of the Aluminum I do is new, but I get the occasional repair job like you got. Doug



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135 Fan

04-28-2007 09:26:15




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to DNWELDMAN, 04-28-2007 01:50:40  
Thanks for the replies. I've used starting fluid to clean things before but never thought of using it cleaning aluminum. The all clean kind of foams up and cleans but doesn't get everything. I did run an arc across the joint to bring up the dirt. Then I cleaned with the stainless brush again. I've welded aluminum before but never had so much dirt come out. When I finally got it to fuse a little, the bead didn't wet out and was high in the center. I ground out 90% of the bead and then it would weld better. After doing this about 5 times it welded really nice with a nice bright shiny puddle. After filling up the groove I turned it over and ground back into the weld I did from the other side. I still had to run a bead and grind it out a couple times before it would weld properly. I think I got a pretty good repair but it took a while to do. I hope the bosses at work don't complain. They figure aluminum is no different than steel and you can buzz it up lickity split and it doesn't even matter what type of aluminum your welding. Thanks again for the help. It's frustrating when what seems like a small job takes a lot longer than you thought. Dave

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DNWELDMAN

04-28-2007 10:43:57




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to 135 Fan, 04-28-2007 09:26:15  
Yeah, tell me about it. With aluminum repair there is no such thing as lickity split or a quick weld. Especialy with cast. I had one that couldn't even be done. Every time you would put an arc to it all the dirt and air pockets(from bad casting) would just explode out and leave a huge crater. Heck, sometimes even new aluminum gives me a problem. Doug



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Little Ed

04-30-2007 19:56:00




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 Re: Cleaning cast Aluminum? in reply to DNWELDMAN, 04-28-2007 10:43:57  
Glad to hear that I am not the only one that still has the occasional problem with cast AL. Sorry to hear that it will always be the same. One thing that I have found when doing oil soaked castings of AL, brass,and cast iron is that you are not likely to pre-heat it too much. My son was having trouble with a transfer case last weekend, and it didn't get any better till we heated it very hot all over, not just in the area to be welded. I have been known to heat a casting until the oil catches fire, and then keep heating it until it won't burn anymore. Good luck

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