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Relax!

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135 Fan

04-23-2007 19:34:35




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In Stans post, I don't think he was trying to stir anything up. He is correct that a very small percent of the time the 3 rd. number is used in conjuction with the last number to identify some rods. The 2 I can think of are 7024 and 7028. They both have added iron powder in the coating which allows for higher deposition rates but are specified for flat and horizontal welding position only. In response to the above post. As strange as it may seem, rocket science is all on paper and in many cases welding is much more difficult. As yes you do need to be cerfied and have to pass very exact testing to be qualified for any critical and high pressure welds. Welding is the most tested trade there is and has been called the second hardest hand and eye coordination skill. The first is surgery because if you make a wrong cut, you could kill someone. I'm not trying to start a debate about what jobs require more skill but in welding, it's not what you know, it's what you can do with what you know. Knowing the theory is very important though. You could never learn everything about welding in 10 life times. Same as farming. Experience counts more than anything. Working with your hands is a lot harder than reading out of a book. If you took a test and it was open book you could pass it easily. If the test was an actual weld, it would be quite a bit harder to pass. That's why good welders make a lot of money and good farmers can keep doing it. I don't know if the farmers make what they should though. Some people have tried very hard to become good at welding or another task but just don't have the right stuff. That's why it's such a challenge finding out what your good at and enjoy doing. A lot of people are good at something but don't like doing it. Hope this clears things up. Dave

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DNWELDMAN

04-24-2007 01:31:42




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 Fan, 04-23-2007 19:34:35  
Hi Dave. Yes I understand that dave. I know he wasn't stiring anything up. All of us are right in a way. I know that. You missed my point. My point was that all this arguing over stupid stuff doesn't do any good for the first guy asking questions. My point was, also, hands-on is the best teacher. I'd rather learn from guys that are self taught than from guys that go by the book. The guys that are self taught will give you the tricks of the trade the book people never knew existed. And yes, farmers are the same. I have alot of respect for those guys. They bust there nuts everyday and run a succesfull farm not everyone can. Farming is hard work. My buddy has a farm, I help sometimes, but I couldn't do it full time. Don't have enough experience. Doug

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135 Fan

04-24-2007 17:28:06




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 Re: Relax! in reply to DNWELDMAN, 04-24-2007 01:31:42  
Lincoln is one of the pioneers of welding and they for the most part make top of the line machines. They wouldn't know what to improve on a machine if they didn't burn a lot of rods with a lot of extremely experienced welders. Self taught is fine but in order to do the best job, you need to know the theory involved. It is almost as important as welding skill. I am sure Lincoln knows all of the tricks of the trade and then some but because their publications are available to everyone they want people to know the proper way of doing things before they attemp any short cuts that could compromise quality or strength if not done right. Have you ever looked through a Lincoln publication on determining welding costs? It would make your head spin. It's the same as CAT knowing all the ins and outs of operating heavy equipment. Learning how to weld from experienced and highly knowledgable welders is the best way to learn. I was lucky because that's how I learned and am always learning more everyday. Although it's almost a lost art, as was mentioned in previous posts, I think that learning how to weld with oxy/acetylene is the best way to teach people what welding actually is and does. I got my apprenticeship training through the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology which is the only welder training facility in the world who is insured by Lloyds of London. I just recently found this out from the Canadian welding bureau. I do know that NAIT has designed courses and sent instructors to other countries to teach welding. Alberta also has the reputation of having the best pipe welders in the world. We build some serious weldments here. Stan teaches welding on a little lower scale but I commend him for asking questions and trying to find out the reasons for why things are the way they are. Nobody was really arguing but Stan had written documentation from a world leader in welding. That's pretty hard to dispute. I was just trying to offer an explanation of his findings. Tickets I have or could renew include Alberta interprovincial red seal journeyman (good for all Canada), Alberta boiler assn. B-pressure all position, B-pressure small bore all position(2 in. and under), B-pressure heavy wall (unlimited thickness), B-pressure MIG root, B-pressure low temperature, B-pressure flux-core fill and cap. I have worked with some welders that have over 40 different tickets. A friend of mine has 14 different TIG tickets alone, not counting all his stick and other process tickets. I have done some TIG but not for anything really critical. I can give some advice on it but most of the advice I give is for Stick and wire feed welding of steel which is what most people on this forum would use. I think I am qualified to give advice on types of welding I have done. I always try to give an explanation for all my advice so maybe it will make sense. I have seen others give advice on welding and other subjects that doesn't make a lot of sense. Some things don't but there has been some really bizarre posts like brazing a gas tank full of gas with a 5000+ degree flame and because the guy was lucky, and it didn't blow up, is how to repair a gas tank. Theory counts as much as skill. You have to try things and question them in order to get experience. I hope this clears things up. I never had the intention of starting a debate. Just trying to offer good sound advice and reasoning. Well usually. LoL Dave

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Fred XR500R

04-25-2007 14:02:25




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 Fan, 04-24-2007 17:28:06  
Wow Dave, You really make yourself out to be the man. I have two questions. Where do you find a welding helmet big enough for that head of yours? And how do you weld in tight spots after it's on? Fred



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135 Fan

04-25-2007 15:42:37




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 Re: Relax! in reply to Fred XR500R, 04-25-2007 14:02:25  
I give advice based on experience and some people have questioned my advice and reasons. Rather than taking advice from someone who thinks they know what there talking about, wouldn't you rather get advice from someone who does it for a living? I have never claimed to be the be all end all expert on welding. That's why I give explanations for any questions I've answered so other people can get a better understanding. There are tons of more experienced welders than myself but not all of them respond on this forum. I've received some really good advice and was trying to return some. Just so no one thought I was making it up or reading it out of a book, I listed some of the tickets I had to give some credibilty. As for welding in tight spots with my big head, I don't. I've got enough experience that I leave it for someone like you to do. Sad thing is I'll probably have to fix your mistakes because you never took the time to read some advice from someone who just might have an idea what they are talking about. I don't know a lot of stuff but I do know a few things about welding. Give me a break! I'm only trying to help people do better welding so they can save some money. Dave

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Fred XR500R

04-26-2007 01:22:23




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 Fan, 04-25-2007 15:42:37  
Yeah, A Canadian welder fixing an American welder"s work, That"ll be the day. What are you talking abooot.



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135 Fan

04-26-2007 16:34:25




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 Re: Relax! in reply to Fred XR500R, 04-26-2007 01:22:23  
Actually I made a mistake. How come you didn't notice it? Boiler codes are written by the A.S.M.E. Not to bad mouth American welders but a lot of drilling equipment made in the US can not hold up to the harsher Canadian winters and needs to be modified so it can. There are lots of good welders all over the place. I was never comparing US to Canadian welders. As I stated for credibility reasons, I received good training from a highly respected tech. school and Alberta has high standards. I don't have to give any advice but some people actually appreciate it and have told me so. By the way, what do you do besides nit pick over something you obviously don't know too much about. Other people have listed tickets etc. to give credibility and I don't see you getting on their case. We must not think alike because I will try to help someone out if I can rather than critique others who offer helpful advice. You're intitled to your opinion, I guess. Dave

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SHeiserman

04-24-2007 19:37:46




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 Fan, 04-24-2007 17:28:06  
Impressive.

As for the knowlege or skill issue, I still say if I can do it, anyone who really wants to can. To this point, most tests I have taken are the 2" and 6" sched. 80 (or heavier, whatever they give me), 6G. 5P root, 7018 out. Have one tig cert for stainless 2"(don't remember the wall thickness), and a 2" dissimilar test, both 6G. I prefer stick. Doing some 1 1/2" plate tests (stick, tig, and mig) that I believe are for the U-stamp. My cert's don't mean much to me because when you go to the next job, you have to re-test anyway. But I do enjoy what I do, even if it is a science. Enjoy reading your posts, would have to agree that you're qualified.

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135 Fan

04-24-2007 20:09:53




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 Re: Relax! in reply to SHeiserman, 04-24-2007 19:37:46  
Thanks. The initial pressure test is on 6 inch sch. 80 or extra heavy. I can't remember. It is with 6010 root and 7018 fill and cap. Most people do the retest on 2 inch extra heavy so they get their small bore at the same time. Everytime you go to a new job they don't care what tickets you have. They do but you still have to do a test to get the job and pretty much every weld is X-rayed. Each ticket is good for 2 years only and you have to renew it. If the shop has an engineer you can do it in house and some will just take an x-ray of one of your production welds. If this is done the ticket is only good in that shop. I think U stamps are issued by the ASTM (American Society for Testing and Materials)as they wrote all the boiler codes. Dave

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135 fan

04-23-2007 19:52:26




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 Fan, 04-23-2007 19:34:35  
I should add that there are also people that like doing things they aren't good at. And lastly there are people who think they are good at something but are just wishful thinkers. Dave



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SHeiserman

04-23-2007 20:43:39




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 Re: Relax! in reply to 135 fan, 04-23-2007 19:52:26  
Fair enough. You guys keep posting, I'll keep reading. I know you've said before, but I don't recall what exactly it is you do. Build tanks? U-stamp? We're doing a bunch of procedure tests now for U and R stamp. U stamp is new to me. All the R stamp means to me is dirty, un-godly job. Got to get the procedure tests out of the way so we can move on to qualification tests.



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135 Fan

04-23-2007 21:26:51




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 Re: Relax! in reply to SHeiserman, 04-23-2007 20:43:39  
U stamp is for pressure vessels. I think there are more than 1 type of U stamp and I think mean it is internationally accepted. Even air compresser tanks need a U stamp. I've worked in several U stamp shops and worked with a couple of welders that came from a shop that lost it's U stamp. The shop was all but closed because they basically lost there license to fabricate pressure vessels. The welders that came from there were very good however. Dave

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