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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Hoist preparation

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1a2b3c

02-10-2006 14:24:39




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I am planning to put an automotive type hoist in my shop. The shop will have 5" concrete floors. Will I have to plan ahead and put footings under the hoist or will the floor be strong enough with just the 5"?? If it needs a footing, how much? It's a 10,000# capacity 2 post hoist with each post having about a 12"x12" footprint.
Thanks!




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Tim Casbolt

02-11-2006 17:22:08




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to 1a2b3c, 02-10-2006 14:24:39  
I bought my lift from Eagle, and they said to use minimum 5" of concrete reinforced with re-rod. Took a few hours to install it, and have never had any problems. My truck weighs a little over 7000 lbs. and it's a 9000 capacity asymetric. Rather than overthink this, you might be better off to get a recommendation from your manufacturer of choice.



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VaTom

02-11-2006 05:38:32




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to 1a2b3c, 02-10-2006 14:24:39  
Having built a couple of underground concrete houses with up to 300 ton roofs, I have some idea. The real question is what"s under the concrete.

Concrete"s great in compression, no problem with your load, but put it in tension, like carpenter was talking about, and you"ve got a problem that only rebar will solve. And then you"re going to need engineering help to design the concrete. If your ground under the concrete will support the load, you"re fine with just concrete.

Might be time to get a soils guy in there to determine your soil bearing capacity. 3000 psi concrete is commonly used. Times 144 (in/sq ft) is more than you"ll need.

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Billy NY

02-11-2006 08:49:01




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to VaTom, 02-11-2006 05:38:32  
Yes, although a lot smaller than a typical column footing, you would want to make sure you know the soil bearing classification, I agree, you don't want voids under it either, ( I was assuming but never assume anything LOL that the sub-base material was good ). Obviously I'm taking an overly technical view on it, but there is some weight to consider here, and also moment and or rotational forces with tension. Personally I don't think I'd enjoy such a great device like that ( still use a creeper ! ) unless I knew it was anchored properly, with some safety margin on the loading included. A 1' x 1' base plate does not give a lot of room for fasteners, so they will be large and the edge distances are not that great from fastener to fastener, so the concrete will take quite a bit of loading if there is a moment arm type force applied, creating tension. Say you use a large Hilti Expansion bolt type fastener in an existing slab, you have no idea what compressive strength the concrete is, then you load the hoist, you have no idea how the fasteners will perform and or how close to failure you are. I can see dunnage beams placed below one of these or a concrete strap beam.

Fitting one of these in an existing space will cost more for the remedial work to accomodate the hoist, but for a new construction we're talking some extra concrete, reinforcing bar, possibly some steel and some embed type anchors. We used to mount temporary material and personell hoists to structural slabs, they were not that big but did the job with a lot of weight applied. The details for these were engineered and provided to us. One large structural slab on top of well compacted load bearing soil, underneath the finished slab would certainly do the job here if I were to take a guess, it may be overkill but you know it's tied off to a boat anchor ! So much easier when doing new construction, just some additional cost, no demo needed. Again, I put my technical hat on here, must miss my old job ..... . NOT !!! LOL !

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carpenter

02-11-2006 04:56:40




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to 1a2b3c, 02-10-2006 14:24:39  
I'm no expert but am a home builder. I have prepped a few of these for my buyers. City homes to get more storage or use out of their triple garage. Is this an old single cylynder or a modern two or four post set up? As we understood it the issue was not verticle load but racking. some of the designs rely on the floor to keep it from tipping over. you put steal in the floor so it does not tear a chunk of your floor up and topple.
Like stand a spoon up in your oatmeal and than push on the top. Scoop a chunk out of your floor and look out.

carpenter

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Billy NY

02-10-2006 19:42:09




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to 1a2b3c, 02-10-2006 14:24:39  
I'm really curious as to why the manufacturer does not specify and or prescribe a detail for anchoring the base plate. They most certainly had to design and engineer the hoist itself, and certify it for a specific rating. There must be shop drawings and a set of calculations on file for the product. What kind of anchorage did they include to certify the rating ? It would really seem that the manufacturer opens the door of liability by not specifying and providing an anchor detail, including reinforcing and or strength of concrete required. I don't mean to sound like a know it all or a jerk either, dont't get me wrong, but you are applying a max live load of 10,000 lbs. to what appears to be 2 columns, with 1' x 1' base plates, each column taking half the displacement of the load and transferring 5,000 lbs. to the base plate in compression. Also are there moment forces to consider with a vehicle on the lift, because it hangs over and beyond the centerline of each column ?

I would want the manufacturer to provide an anchor detail, if a 5" slab calc's out, let them go on record stating it works based on an engineers calculation. To be quite frank, I'd not want to be wondering about something that is supporting that kind of weight. It should be designed according to the manufacturer. I would also think that something like a 2'-0" x 2'-0" x 1'-0" thick or similar column base footing with appropriate size anchors embedded in the footing would be necessary. This detail would not be a difficult task for an engineer to calculate what would safely displace the loads applied. Usually the footing for a column is below the bottom of a finished slab, they pour the slab over the footing, but make an isolation joint at the column line, cracks have tendencies to occur at the outside corners of these, I think that is what the isolation joint helps avoid. I can imagine the manufacturer must also have considered a customer who has an existing space with a concrete slab and is not building new, so they can sell the product that would bolt up to a slab, possibly using a larger baseplate, more fasteners, to displace it over a larger area, reducing the point loading. Again, don't mind me, I'm just thinkin aloud here !

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Hobo,NC

02-10-2006 14:53:39




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 Re: Hoist preparation in reply to 1a2b3c, 02-10-2006 14:24:39  
Sum beef the floor and sum don't, I have never added enny extra to the floor and 5" should be a plenty. One thing to think about izz how far from the door does the lift need to be if space izz a problem 15" for cars and lite trucks and 25" for longer , i set my last ones at 16" from the roll up door and its to far. I also set a 12K 25" from the door and for most aplications its to far away from the door and wish I had set it around 22" to give me sum extra werk'in room in the front. i do alot of service werk on flatbed 1 ton trucks so thats why I set the 12K at 25" from the door. What kind of lift ya git'in (name brand). I ran my exhaust evacuation system over head and if I had it to do over it would have been in the floor and used 3" pvc and comode fixtures were it came thru the floor. Its no problem to do and nice to have. celing height wuz no problem so I had all my lifts extended 2' and its nice to not have to worry bout vans or trucks hit'in the top of the lift. I install my own lifts its a piece of cake to do. I have installed 20 or so and never had a problem. They git $400 to set one around here. Most off'em me and a helper kin install in 2 hr. and no lift'in equitment need if you use yer head.

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