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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

O.T.------ Property Easements

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Robert

02-09-2004 06:37:19

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Okay, here's my question, and I'd like to get all of you land owners' response and justification...
Here's the deal: I bought this 65 acre tract 3 years ago. It's the center piece of what used to be a 377 acre parcel. The neighbors on each side have cross fenced for cattle, but since I'm doing "wildlife management" for my ag. exemption, I had no need for a fence. The first neighbor asked me to help pay for his fence (we all abought the land about the same time), but at the time he was needing a fence, I needed a road and tank dug, so couldn't afford to help pay for the fence, anyway.
Anyway, the fence was built, and now, I need to have the electrical folks put in another meter---you guessed it, on the fence line, since that's the closest, and cheapest way for me to get power. The catch is, the electrical folks won't put in the line unless they have a 30' easement. There's that much space along the fence line, but they would need to get on the neighbor's side to drill holes to set the poles. After the line is in, any maintenance would be done from my side of the fence.
So, what do you guys think---is allowing a temporary easement too much to ask----how would you respond?

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Chris Brown

02-10-2004 16:48:53

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Have you checked on underground wiring? Here in Missouri I am seeing more and more underground wire and a green transformer box in the yard. My brotherNlaw has that setup and the underground wire is an eighth of a mile long(I trenched it) I don't know how far that wire is good for.

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MacSC

02-10-2004 14:13:58

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

I find all the comments very interesting. I suppose there are as many varied laws/rules as there are ruling entities! 4 years ago I needed electricity for my new house from a pole that fed a now abandoned house beside my property. I was going to have to get a signed access agreement from that property owner so the electric company could pull from there to my house. BUT, the pole was actually about 5-6 feet on my property! Then the perverbially s--- hit the fan when I tried to get a water tap because the end of the water line was about 50 feet away from my property which fed that old house. I couldn't get an easement agreement from the a--hole that owns the property and now lives in upstate NY. (Did I mention that I'm in upstate SC?) I first called the highway dept. for their ROW measurement, then found out that the water line is on highway ROW, then when the SOB that was head of the water works still told me to dig a well, I went to the commission board and got my water line tapped in on highway ROW to my property. Now, about the fencing, here, if I want a fence I build it ON MY PROPERTY at my expense unless I and my neighbor sign and record an agreement that the fence is THE PROPERTY LINE and we share it for now and forever more. If I build a fence, my neighbor cannot use my fence for his animals unless I agree, else he has to build his fence right beside mine. Been there done that! It is my understanding that you don't need a fence, so don't pay for one. It is my understanding that you have access to your property with a power line access on the road where you had to build your road from, so I guess you might have to pay extra for it. It seems to me that there is a lot of hemming and hawing about something you should be able to handle without your neighbor! If you are "landlockedd" then a lots of days in court will get you a power line across his property I suppose. But, somewhere in the back of my mind I wonder why you need electricity to a wildlife sanctuary. Are you gonna electrocute them instead of shooting them?

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Robert

02-10-2004 15:40:37

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to MacSC, 02-10-2004 14:13:58

Your last statement made me laugh, and I needed one the way this day has been going----Thanks! (And I really mean that!)
I need a power line because I'm in the process of building a small camp house, complete with a shower, flushing toilet, and, best of all, here in Central Texas, an air conditioner.
The camp house will be available to Boy Scouts for wildlife observation, and, of course, I'll use it. I can run the power line down the other fence line pretty easily, as I've got the required 30' needed by the power company. Going that route, I'll either have to trench across the road from the meter back to the camp house, or have another pole set. The first route would have been the easiest, but, I'm too d*mn hard-headed and stubborn to kiss anyone's a** for something that (to me, anyway) could have been accomplished with a handshake. If the shoe were on the other foot, I would have granted the easement, but then, I don't live in Houston, and when I grew up people did things with a hand shake, and your word was "good as gold" as they say. I miss those days.
I had to build a fence when I bought my house in town, 18 years ago, to keep my dog in. I was one of the first people in the subdivision, and the only fence for a long time. As time went on, more people moved in, and tied on to my fence. One neighbor just had to buy a gate to have his yard fenced. It never even occurred to me to go around and ask them to pay for the half of the fence they were getting the benefit from----I guess I'm just different, or dumb....

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MacSC

02-11-2004 07:03:28

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-10-2004 15:40:37

It sounds to me like you've got a real prize as a neighbor. I agree that a handshake could solve a lot of problems. But, think about a couple of things. If he is gracious enough to give you that ROW/easement, you will never live long enough to repay him for his kindness. He will need to use your cabin for all his family outings. He will want to hunt every weekend on your land. He will be the biggest pain in the a-- you have ever seen. You sound a lot like me with all your stubbornness and bullheadedness which is the qualities you will need when you put your power on your property then the first time you see him on your side of his fence very courteously tell him that if you ever see him on your property again he will get a butt full of buckshot:)

Consider yourself lucky that he's not a relative which is where so many of my problems of lack of cooperation stem from!

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Keith-OR

02-09-2004 21:51:45

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

If you could put it under ground, would be no way anyone could hook up to it. All my main feed lines come in under ground with a large tranformer setting on the ground. Would not have any over head lines. No through power company easement. Over head lines very dangerous with hand line sprinklers system.

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Burlgoat

02-09-2004 17:04:35

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Robert
I hate to rain on your party but I have been on the side your neighbor is on.I also live in Texas the central part.I had a city dude sue me for road & power easement to his property.It didn't hold up in court Judge says law reads if that's the only way in or only way for power he would grant it.But since the other property owner had another way to get power & road it was his problem not mine.The other owner was like you he didn't want to pay the extra that power company was charging.Also Texas Law states rancher does not have to fence his cattle in you must fence them out if you don't want themon your property.TEXAS IS A FREE RANGE STATE.WE fence for common reasons and to be neighborly.Suck it up and see if you can make amends with your neighbor.

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Dieselrider

02-09-2004 16:17:57

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Robert, I guess you could go to him and apologize for any hard feelings he may have toward you, and offer to pay for half the fence if he will allow the right of way for the utility line, or you can ask the power company to put the right of way totally on you and deal with it that way. Any other bargaining may be burried under hard feelings and very hard to access.

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Mark

02-09-2004 14:00:05

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Sounds like you better just suck it up and pay to have the line run on YOUR proprety.I think you missed the opportunity to make good with your neighbor when you couldn't pay your half of the fence bill. Any further negotiations will just worsen the situation,especially if you take the"get a lawyer" route.The $2-3000 you saved by claiming poor on the fence job has come around to bite you in the a$$, probably many times over by the time it's all said and done. It's his land,and entirely his perogative to grant you or anyone else an easement.Under the circumstances you outlined,I would probably do as he has.

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Robert

02-09-2004 14:40:39

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Mark, 02-09-2004 14:00:05

At the time he wanted to put the fence in, I needed a road and gate, along with a tank, which cost me about $2300 in dozer work. I honestly didn't have the money to pay for half a fence, also. On top of that, after the fence line was cleared, I ended up with all the trash (extra dirt, downed trees, brush, etc,) while he ended up with a 4 lane highway by comparison, so I didn't much feel obligated to pay for that. It took the better part of two days, just to move enough trash out of the way so that I could run a brush hog on my side of his fence.
I guess we both (neighbor and I) missed out on an opportunity to become good neighbors.....

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jim

02-10-2004 15:11:48

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 14:40:39

I, being the butthead I am probably would have bulldozed all his refuse and his fence back on his property. I live on a farm, have all my life, and if I want a fence on the property line, it is my responsbilty to put this fence up not my neighbors, so if this guy is being a pisshead about all this, then put your power line in another spot and if he needs electrical run at a later date, then that is his problem, he soulnds like the kind of neighbor I could not get along with, either.

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John

02-09-2004 23:29:06

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 14:40:39

While reading the post I was siding with your neighbor but after reading this I change my mind. Let me get this straight.....He cleared the fence line and put all the trash on your side. To He(( with him. I do not know your laws for fence payment but I can assume that if the law would make you pay for half you would be in court right now.(may be worth checking)
What I would do is:
Use the money you saved on the fence to have elec line run eleswhere. Do not put on the property line so he can not branch off of it.
Put up a 6' fence 6" on your property just in front of gate.
Call the law and find out about him paying to clean up trash pushed up.
If you see him in the deer stand use this time to bush hog.
Clear brush and pile it up. Then on the day with the correct breaze burn it.

Be as big a a$$ as him. But that is just me.

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kyhayman

02-09-2004 11:56:04

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

This is one of those things that varies state to state (or maybe even county by county). Spend some time reviewing the statutes in your state and find out exactly what the law is there.

All I can tell you is what Kentucky law is. Each property owner is responsible for building and maintaining 50% of the fence, in length, the half to his right of the property line, doesnt matter if you have stock or not. Can get a Circuit Court filing with a lein on the property for the cost.

Utilities here all require signing 'unrestricted access' for any updates to the power grid when you hook up. If yours does that and he has power, then he has to let them set the poles.

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Bill Smith

02-09-2004 11:34:43

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

It is common practice/if not law in my state to pay for 1/2 of the fence, even if you don't have livestock yourself. If you have livestock yourself it is your responsibility to maintain 1/2 of it. The 1/2 that you are responsible for, face the fence standing on your property and the half that is on your right is your half. As for him putting in a gate, that was a smart move so that he will be able to get livestock back into his property if they happen to get out through the fence. He should not be using that gate for any other type of access without permission. As for hunting, in my state, if he wounded an animal on his property and it crossed over the line on yours, he has a right to track and kill that animal and remove it from your property by way of foot traffic only. Otherwise he needs written permission to hunt/shoot at anything on your property. If I was you I would go over and offer to pay for 1/2 the cost of fence even if you have to pay it in small payments. When you get that worked and ironed out, I would then ask about the easement rights right afterwards. If he fails to cooperate with the easement rights, I would then find out legal rights from a lawyer. You might have to take it to court if you have legality rights, or you might have to figure out an alternative way to get the electric line put in. Don't put a chain and lock of your own on that gate, especially if you don't pay any money on that fence. By all means, put up some no hunting and no trespassing signs. Not on the fence, put your own post's in. If you see him on your place, call the law. If related to hunting, call your local game warden. I would also keep your wildlife feeders and food plots on the oposite side of your property. No need to give him extra hunting opportunity by having food plots just over the fence. Just my 2 cents.

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Shane

02-09-2004 11:28:48

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

First of all I think you having a wildlife management plot to get an ag exemption is a bunch of crap. As far as the fence goes around here if your neighbor wants a fence put up between your property and his you have to put up half or pay to have half put up. If you don't feel like paying then the neighbor can tell your local property tax office and they will hire someone to put up the fence for you and bill you in your next tax statement. And also, here when land is sold there must be at least a 100' right of way to the land, this avoids problems like you are having. Sounds like you will have to have the power brought in another way even though it is more expensive... planning for the future will save money in the long run. Neighbors aren't always so neighborly.

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Robert

02-09-2004 12:36:22

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Shane, 02-09-2004 11:28:48

I wasn't even talking about the ag.exemption, but since you brought it up, I'll say this. It's every bit as much trouble to maintain the ag. exemption with wildlife management as it is to raise cows, in Texas. The land has to have been 1d1 ag. exempt in the first place. You have to accomplish at least three of seven requirements, and provide documentation, (pictures, recepts, etc., ) and I have to provide an update every year now (used to be 6 months). I've had more visits by the tax collector than either one of my neighbors that claim to be "raising cows", and even as a non-cattleman, when I see those cows that look as if they're one step short of starving to death, I know that something's not quite right.
I spend as much on feed, fertilizer, and seed in a year's time as my "rancher" neighbors do on their livestock.
The ag. exemption doing wildlife management was signed into law in 1995 by the state legislature to increase habitat for wildlife (which is rapidly disappearing in favor of subdivisions), and to also provide an option for farmers to keep their ag. exemption when farming isn't profitable.

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Shane

02-09-2004 13:19:31

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 12:36:22

I suppose I don't agree with the ag exemption with the wildlife thing since around here the deer, coyotes, and now the turkeys are so thick that they opened the state park for deer hunting the last several years. It isn't your fault these stupid politicians get laws like this passed, you are just working the system like everyone else, I just think it is crap. Can't really blame you though, and I have seen some of the cattle down south... yikes! They all look like they are gonna take their last breath any minute now.

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Robert

02-09-2004 13:52:41

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Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Shane, 02-09-2004 13:19:31

I'm not trying to "start anything" either. Situations do vary a lot from area to area, state to state. The area my land is in has really been "over hunted" in years past, because of it's close proximity to urban areas (mainly Houston), and the wildlife has suffered. Add into the mix, the county is "single buck", so, no does have ever been hunted, and most of the good bucks are killed off, leaving lots of spikes to do the breeding, resulting in a poor deer herd, overall.
We're (the county) is now under a management program, put on by the Parks and Wildlife Commission, to try to get rid of the spikes, or at least, thin them out. This is the second of a three year program, and we're already seeing benefits of bigger, and better deer getting harvested. There are counties in Texas where the "wildlife management" type ag. exemption is being taken advantage of (like places where people have a 10 acre yard, put out a spin feeder, and call it "management"), but the county I'm in checks this type of exemption every year, or, more often, if they're so inclined. I really do try to do the right thing. I'm hoping to get turkeys to start roosting on my place---they've all but disappeared due to habitat loss, mainly.
It sounds like where you're at, there's something missing in the puzzle, if you're over run with wildlife. If you hunt the State parks in Texas, and get caught, you're going to jail----no sense of humor around here for that sort of thing. I'd thought about goats on my place, but, I've never seen a goat proof fence, and the coyotes would get too fat, I'm afraid....

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Shane

02-10-2004 09:40:09

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 13:52:41

Yeah it kinda shoked us all when they decided to open the state park to hunters! For 3 days it sounded like a war zone (I live 1 mile from it) and they took out a lot of deer. But like I said, there were too many around and they literally ate the fields around the park to nothing. We have a stretch of 1/2 mile of land along one side of it and 1/4 mile on another side and one wet year we had to wait till Jan to harvest the corn (we had begun but it started raining and then snowed for 2 weeks on and off) and it was doing over 120 bu. but in Jan it ended up making 15 bu. And just last year turkey hunting has been allowed again. They are getting worse than the deer now, saw one hen with 15 chicks and another right behind her with 12 this summer and now you see then everywhere! Had a friend total his tractor/trailer cause one flew in front of him and came through the windshield. Anyhow, I guess you are doing something for the good of nature, it just sounded like a sham at first. Have to appologize to ya!

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Jared in VT

02-09-2004 10:38:47

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Robert, George Washington said it best; "...beware of intangling alliances..." My old farm has a power utility ROW. The power company is an even poorer and more demanding neighbor. This fence-guy is your neighbor, better to make peace and negotiate with him then invite the power company in to claim their pound of flesh. It's in your best interest to be pals with your neighbor. It's going to cost you to run the power over the property no matter what you do. So get the grouchy guys attention and talk it out with him. For the price of a bit of fence, you may get your power in the way you want it!
Best of luck, Jared

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VADAVE

02-09-2004 08:25:13

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

These easements are not temporary particularly if the posts are set on the other side. If I were your neighbor I would consider selling you the easement.
It does sound like there are some hard feelings-- over the fence?
New Subject
As far as killing deer/hogs by the feeder and on you. Well in Virginia baiting is illegal. And no hunting or no trespassing signs mean just that. I suspect the game warden would be very interested in hunting stands over feeders.

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Robert

02-09-2004 08:50:50

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to VADAVE, 02-09-2004 08:25:13

Baiting isn't illegal in Texas. I have three feeders out----two with corn/milo, and one demand feeder with high dollar (to me, anyway) deer chow. I've never hunted my place, and the feeders are there to mainly attract the deer so that I can do an annual census on the deer herd/composition, etc, which is one of the requirements for my ag. exemption. I also plant oats/clover for food plots (supplemental food)- another requirement for the ag.exemption. If there are hard feelings, they probably came from my not being able to pay for part of the fence when he wanted to put it in, and, since there was a lot of bulldozer work, plus the cost of fencing material (3700+ feet of 5 strand barbed wire) the fence was a pricey investment.
If he came out and said "I want x $'s to let the power company come on my place to put the poles on your side of the fence", I could understand that, but to say the easement would effect property value down the road if he sold out, doesn't wash, with me. The power company has already explained that this is just to set poles, not a lifetime easement, but, he isn't budging.
Well, like they say, "what goes around, comes around", so I guess I'll go ahead and fix the gate area so that he can't run across my property whenever he wants to anymore... and renew the "no trespassing" signs that somehow mysteriously disappeared....

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Jerry B

02-10-2004 06:32:49

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 08:50:50

Set posts in concrete about 1 foot from the gate on YOUR side. Set them about 18-24 inches apart. He can walk through but can not drive anything through the narrow gap. Well maybe a bike.

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Fla Lawyer

02-09-2004 07:58:13

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Sounds like there are some hard feelings over the fence. If you have adequate space to set the utility on your side of the fence you are probably out of luck if you want to make him accept the easement. If there is no way to set the line on your side you may have a statutory or common law right to access. Check with a lawyer. My guess is that he thinks you should have paid for the fence. The fact about the easement is that they are very specific in their terms and create no future legal problems, if that is what he claims to be worried about.

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buickanddeere

02-09-2004 10:15:18

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Fla Lawyer, 02-09-2004 07:58:13

Might be a good time to swallow your pride, step up and say sorry " I was real short on cash at the time and too embarrassed to admit it". Offer to pay 1/2 the fence with accumulated compound interest at bank rates. Cheaper than paying two lawyers to fight and not guarantee the results you want. You still do owe him 1/2 the fence out of common decency and likely the local bylaws anyways.

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thurlow

02-09-2004 13:54:19

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to buickanddeere , 02-09-2004 10:15:18

Suppose I would respectfully disagree about owing the neighbor half the price of the fence due to common decency and local bylaws. If indeed the law says that (it does in some places), so be it. But, as far as common decency; just thinking about my situation; at one time, I had cattle in 8 seperate locations in 5 different communities; never counted it up, but probably joined 60-80 different people/landowners. Only 2 had cattle across the fence from me; by common agreement, we built and maintained the fences between us. The rest of the neighbors mostly had row crops; or in some places, there was a sub-division or individual houses..... ..they would have thought I had lost my mind/would have laughed in my face if I had asked them to share the cost of fence.

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buickanddeere

02-09-2004 18:18:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to thurlow, 02-09-2004 13:54:19

Around here even cashcroppers and relocated cityslickers to rural fresh air/peace & quiet. By law have to pay for 1/2 of the common fence. Some farmers choose not to push the issue as it's just easier to fix fence than to find & face someone.

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Jim

02-10-2004 15:34:14

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to buickanddeere, 02-09-2004 18:18:15

Around here we do not have much cattle or fences, but if you was to try to put a fence up next ot me and expect me to buck up 1/2 the price of the fence, I would tell you where to take a flying ????, also. Around here, all the utility company has to do is go to court, file for an easment and usually unless the owner of property they need easement from has a legitamate reason for denying the easement, the court will issue a temporairy easement. You might alos check with your local zoning laws on this, sometimes when property is split and sold in smaller parcels, there is an easement that is there, then this kind of thing does not come up.

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buickanddeere

02-10-2004 16:39:29

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easeme in reply to Jim, 02-10-2004 15:34:14

No problem. The county will build your half of the fence for me and put a lien on your property to pay for it, now or later with compound interest.

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T_Bone

02-09-2004 07:05:33

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Hi Robert,

I've never heard of a utility "temporary" easement. I wouldn't think the utility would buy that as lines are expensive to put in and they want too service more than 1 load center from one line run.

Can you have the elec. utility put in underground service on your side?

Is there exisiting utility easement on the property line? Some planning & zoning codes require a utility easement when subdivided.

Here we dig our own trench and run the EPVC with J-box and meter pedestal then the utility runs the wire. Of course all meeting the utility spec's.

T_Bone

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Robert

02-09-2004 07:49:01

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to T_Bone, 02-09-2004 07:05:33

There is an existing power line on the county road at present. The line I want to have installed would run 90 degrees to the existing line, down the new fence line. The electric coop wants a 30 foot "path" regardless if it runs overhead or underground. Their price for overhead is $2.25 a foot, underground, it's about $7.50 a foot. I guess I can see the neighbor's point about giving an easement---he's worried that once he gave the easement, they could always come back on his property if they needed to do any repairs, but, the power company says they would just need to get on his place for the initial pole setting/wire pulling----any future maintenance would be done form my side....
I was left with the impression that he (neighbor) wants $$$$, mainly to help pay for his fence. Back when he put the fence in, I indicated I might be willing to help pay for part of the fence if he would put in a slick wire at the bottom (for the fawns to cross the fence, and if he'd give me a little time to scratch some more money together, since I was needing a road and a tank. He put in 5 strand barbed wire, a gate, and a "gap" at the far end, then put up a deer stand by the gate.
This past weekend, I found a deer carcass and a hog carcass by the tank, real close to my feeders--- the neighbor tells me he doesn't hunt---- I found it strange that these two animals died of "natural causes" right by the feeders....

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T_Bone

02-09-2004 20:27:15

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 07:49:01

Hi Robert,

Now that more has came out about what the easement actual is for, I would have to side with your neighbor on this one.

Why? You all have a existing common Utility easement on the front of your properties. Your wanting to run a line for the benefit of your property alone with only a possible defect on the title of your neighbors property.

Your neighbor could suffer some loss of future resale value.

Example: I'm wanting to buy one of three propertys thats for sale, yours, your neighbor property on the left or your neighbors property on the right. Yours and your neighbor property on the left has a utility easement. I would buy the property on the right side with no extra easement.

Why? Here we only have a 5ft building buffer from each property line. So if I want to put up a building 5ft from the property line, I can't do that on your property or your neighbors property as there is an existing utility easement that makes my new building set back additional 15ft or 30ft depending on the easement requirment.

You also can install this line on your own property easement without any effect on your neighbors use of his land.

T_Bone

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KEG

02-09-2004 06:57:04

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

Robert,
It sounds like your neighbor doesn't understand that a temporary easement is just that - temporary. You may want to explain that to him. And you may want to have the power company explain the process - how they will repair an damage, the construction will only last so long, no permanent effects, etc.

Also, as'Old' mentioned, will he ever want power from this line? If so, you cannot prevent him from getting it if the easement runs along the property line. But ... if the easement is one foot from the property line, he will need an easement from you in the future. I don't recommend this ploy, but if you have unreasonalbe neighbors, you sometimes have to do unreasonable things.

The next alternative is to come up with a way to drill holes on your own side, if possible.

KEG

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Robert

02-09-2004 07:14:25

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to KEG, 02-09-2004 06:57:04

He's one of those neighbors you hear about----always looking out for his interests. He left a gate in the middle of the fence -to my property, and he has the only key. Saturday, when I saw him, he'd crossed my property to get to the neighbor on the other side of me. Crossing property lines isn't a problem for him, but, when he first got out there, he put a big "KEEP OUT" sign on that same road, pointed back toward my side, and I've never even set foot on his place.
The power company has explained what they want to do, that it is just for the purpose of setting the poles, but he's not budging.
I would have to clear a lot of trees to get the necessary 30" on my side of the fence, or pay the power company an additional $2 a foot, and that's an 1163 foot run (they measured it).

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Bob

02-09-2004 11:24:18

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 07:14:25

I believe I'd install a spike strip on your side of the gate, but then again I can be a j@ck@$$ sometimes. Might keep him from crossing your property on anything that has tires, or at least slow him down. They can be hidden quite easily in tall grass.

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Jimmy King

02-09-2004 10:03:06

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 07:14:25

I do believe I would put the second lock on the gate with only one key on my side.

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thurlow

02-09-2004 09:13:29

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 07:14:25

Several issues at work here; may be one or more a**holes involved (or maybe none; just differences of opinion). Some townships/states/localities require both parties to a fence to build/pay for/maintain it; most rural areas would expect the using party to build and pay for it. Can't see how he could have any reasonable expectation for you to help with it. If the power line easement would benefit only you, you're probably out of luck, as far an any right of imminent domain; you can either work something out with your neighbor or forget it. As far as his trespassing on you; could he convince a judge (assuming it got that far)that either he or the public have been using your property as a "right of way" to somewhere else? You may not can stop him..... .Sounds like either one or both of you are newcomers to the area and have different expectation as to what is "right"; often leads to serious mis-understandings..... ....

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Robert

02-09-2004 09:49:00

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Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to thurlow, 02-09-2004 09:13:29

Thanks for your insight. We both bought our respective properties about the same time. There are/were oil and gas wells on our places, and there are two right of ways where the gas lines are buried. Neither of us own mineral rights, but the oil company does have permission for access to maintain their property (wells, etc). Those "rights" (for the oil company) were written in the deed restrictions, or whatever they're called, when we bought the land.
My take was, I didn't work for the oil company, nor does he, so neither of us has any business on the other's property.
You're probably right, though. We both expected something different than what this has turned out to be. I can find another route for the power line. It just seemed like a reasonable request. I'm pretty sure I would have granted him the easement if he needed one. The whole thing seems a bit silly to me (the part about an easement detracting from property value, that is), since any time there's a utility involved, you (the land owner, that is) give them an easement whether you like it or not, even if you don't directly benefit from the utility. For example, if there's a phone line on the front of your property, and someone hits the pole, and the phone company needs to get on your place to repair it, they can do whatever they need to to fix the thing, even if you personally don't have a phone.

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Throop

02-09-2004 10:09:35

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 09:49:00

Robert:
My power company takes a 30' easement also, meaning the poles in the center of easement and 15' of access on either side, used for tree trimming, maint. etc. Seems to me if you could move the pole line 15' more on your property which would also make the entire 30' easement on your property, eliminating any involvement with your nieghbor....and of course the power company may in the future require a second easement from you to "exit" your property to serve him...
Good luck.

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old

02-09-2004 06:49:44

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

A lot depends on state laws, where I live if you don't have animals but the guy that has the next place over does and he wants to put up a fench its his problem and money. As far as the power line can it be moved say 30 from the fench on your side? If so good for you and when he wants to run a line from it just say NO

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Jimmy King

02-09-2004 09:57:55

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to old, 02-09-2004 06:49:44

That sounds good, but it the state of Missouri if the power co. puts the line at no cost to the land owner you cannot stop anyone from hooking up to it.

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goofus fr L.A.

02-09-2004 10:14:10

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Jimmy King, 02-09-2004 09:57:55

Jim, that rule would apply almost anywhere. The power co will do as they see fit, once the line is installed. Show me a land line, and I will show you a problem. goof

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Robert

02-09-2004 06:40:00

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Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:37:19

P.S. He's said no----that allowing an easement would affect property value if the land was ever sold..... .....

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Slowpoke

02-09-2004 22:01:13

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:40:00

If your neighbor has any public road frontage, he has a county easement XX' from the road center into his property. If there are power poles on his side of the road, he has a utility easement. There is an easement from the utility line to his meter. I think what he is confused about is an easement granted to someone who cannot access their property without crossing his land. It's called landlocked property and it happens quite often. One never knows how the easement will be used, or who will use it. Property will be divided with no thought of access or ease of use. I once owned a pretty square 1/4 acre that was surrounded by a U shaped piece of the rest of the acre. The other owner had to go around the rear of my property or use the road to get to the other side of his.
Go to the county offices and check the maps of the properties and see what easements there are. Title companies also have maps. You may be able to get a copy. Read your deed carefully, too.

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toolman

02-09-2004 10:19:24

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Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to Robert, 02-09-2004 06:40:00

he,s right and i wouldn,t think there was such a thing as a tempoary easement, as for the fencing it,s common practice where i live to share cost and labor when a fence is built to divide two properties,thats just the neighbourly thing to do.

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goofus fr L.A.

02-09-2004 13:17:23

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Re: Re: Re: O.T.------ Property Easements in reply to toolman, 02-09-2004 10:19:24

You never own land. Land owns you.
Hog-Tied by a Fence Law

If you live in a historic part of the country, beware of obscure fence laws that may still be on the books. In Maryland, a Howard County landowner was subjected to an anachronistic county law that not only required him to share the cost of a fence on the property line with his neighbor but required the fence to be "hog-tight"-low enough so that a hog could not squeeze under it. And no, neither of the neighbors had any hogs on his property. (At last report, county officials were working to repeal the law.)

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