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Discussion Forum

IH 856 hot farm

Author 
Chads

07-04-2003 18:39:58
66.228.96.175



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Hey guys, its me again, I got a few questions for you all, I have got a IH 856D with the 407DT in it. I would like to build into a hot farm with a single charger. Can anyone tell me if the 407 will do the job? is it reliable? How light can an 856 be lightened up, but try to keep a "farm stock" appearance? What kind of pump and charger should be used, Etc.Etc.. I know this is not an antique tractor, and I apologize for this. If you guys or ladies have any advice on this it would be great!!!

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Diesel Freak

07-20-2003 12:54:12
152.163.253.104



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 Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Chads, 07-04-2003 18:39:58  
Hey! To let u know I have a buddy who is in the Michigan Farm Stock Tractor Pullers Association or MFSTPA. He pulls a 856 and it does really good. The only thing is I'm not sure what your rules are. In his club u can run the "P" style pump, a bigger turbo, and way above stock rpm. U can lighten them up to make the 6000 lb.class but u got to do alot of grinding in the rear differential and empty the T/A then fill the empty spaces with faom so u dont have to fill withe so much oil. My buddy has a "P" pump, an 8" outside diameter exhaust housing turbo,and a 2.99" inlet hole on the compresser side. And his tractor will wind up to 5000 rpm and he pulls in 3RD gear with a slipper clutch. It is really dependable it runs good and is really competitive.
If u have any Questions just e mail me and i will do my best to answer them. later and HAVE FUN its a blast and a rush!!

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1206SWMO

07-05-2003 17:28:56
209.128.183.179



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 Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Chads, 07-04-2003 18:39:58  
Check out the link below.You need to contact 856 puller from northern Missouri at the Red Power forum.I believe he pulls in high 3rd.Or get ahold of IHBrad at Red Power that pulls a 1206 in Michigan.

Years ago in the early 70's I pulled a 1968 856 IH in the 12,000 SS class.It had the D407 which was bullit proof.We had a Roosamaster pulling pump with a .450 head,.093 lines,big injectors,and big turbo.We had a 4100 IH flywheel and clutch,had a truck luber finer which doubled the oil capacity,etc.We turned it 3300 rpms and was probably turning 350+ horses.This tractor was farmed with too except during pulling season.

We never twisted a pump shaft but I saw lots of others do it.There are no plungers to stick on these pumps.

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Krouthead

07-05-2003 09:35:19
63.173.175.107



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 Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Chads, 07-04-2003 18:39:58  
I pull against some IHs similar to these in hot farm with my 130. Most rules are (1) turbo, 3" max,some places 2.5" ,with the pump cranked up.
I pull against 1206,966 and 1066s these are all tough.I couldn't verify,but I think the 856 has a rotary with the 66 series having in line pumps.
The in line pump has more capability than the rotary.But you can make a rotary work,take the long cover off the top and back the screw that is horizontal OUT.According to my IH history book the 856 is 90 drawbar 100 pto HP.If you start competing with some of the bigger JDs in Hot Farm , you'll have to get the pump built.I pull in 8K and 10K,I can handle the IHs here,but there is a 4430 that give me fits!As far as the question of 407 CI, I only have 345 CI!But lots of precious diesel fuel!!!You can put pressed wheels and lighten the front...7500?My friend has a stock 656 with cast 38s,he recently pulled it,weighed 7500 and it has smaller engine,so I dont know.Leave your sheet metal alone and plumb around it.I dont know if I helped ya much..maybe a little.
Lots O Luck, Krout

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Chads

07-05-2003 17:20:50
66.228.96.248



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 Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Krouthead, 07-05-2003 09:35:19  
I not a big fan of tearing up sheet metal. I want it to be like a "sleeper" tractor. Would you know some of the basic weight location, drawbar specs, (what to do, what not to do)and safety equipment for these tractors? I had the pump rebuilt and turned up a little, bigger injectors, rebuilt the engine,(everything) I have got a 150 M&W dyno it's not big enough to hanle the 856, I don't think it is much stronger that 175, that maybe on the high side. More than likely the only thing I am going to keep on the tractor is the pto. Does the IH tractors you pull against use TAs? Do you run in a hot farm class or prostock?

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Krouthead

07-05-2003 19:22:19
63.173.174.84



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 Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Chads, 07-05-2003 17:20:50  
In Mo,where we pull they actually call it stock,if you can believe that!But every where else,I have checked the rules it falls under Hot Farm class.Yes they can and do shift TAs.I run 18.4 x 38 Non Cut,20" drawbar,18" from axle center,still have my pto and even still have hydrostatic steering.Tractor has all stock internals with exception of pump and turbo,all driveline is as came from across the sea.I have never dynoed this tractor,so I dont know and i hate to comment after the followups you got on the H haha.I think the pump is 325cc,I have been told the power should beabove 300hp, but as i said I dont know.I know its fun to pull and the closest thing I have to compare it to, is a good lookin wild woman with no conscious!!I just have wheelie bars...A MUST! I ride mine everytime I leave the line.But that is all I have,probably should have roll cage the way it wheelies, but dont.Oh there is a 3000RPM limit.as far as the weight, I pull 8000 with nothing.And for 10000 i put all but 200 right on the back,but thats for me.

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ChadS

07-06-2003 13:43:31
66.228.96.167



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Krouthead, 07-05-2003 19:22:19  
What kind of engine temperature does a hot farm tractor run? Is water injection required on an engine like that? Would the 856 radiator be enough to cool it? I got a set of firestone f151,20.8-38s to put on it. 20 in pressed steel. How about the clutch?? it is new, button style disk, don't seem to slip but, if I start making real power what is the limitations to a stock style cluch?



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Krouthead

07-06-2003 17:03:13
63.173.174.145



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to ChadS, 07-06-2003 13:43:31  
I dont have water injection,mine has never got hot.Dont know about the radiator,dont have one,air cooled...nothing like a good blow!
I am running 16 x 38 wheels and firestone 23 degree un cut.I run stock clutch setup.
Lots O Luck
Krout



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ROADFARMER

07-05-2003 10:39:04
208.196.37.208



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 Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to Krouthead, 07-05-2003 09:35:19  
66 series should have rotary pump too.



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ChadS

07-05-2003 13:07:32
66.228.96.209



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 Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to ROADFARMER, 07-05-2003 10:39:04  
I think the engine is out of a 1206? it has a Roosa Master pump on it. Will the 66 series inline pump bolt on to the 407? would a pump off of like a IH dump truck with a 466 work? Can you weld the manifolds, or do they have rules against that? I put a new cluch and TA in the tractor what will I have to do to the TA? should I keep it or what? I don't intend on stroking it, probably alot of head work to make it flow more. How many hp can a 407 if it is done right, could it produce? What about water injection? yes or no? I want to do this right and make it reliable if there is such thing! ha ha. How many rpm's are you allowed to run in hot farm? This tractor is goingto be a "local county fair" tractor, what do you all think?

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K.B.

07-05-2003 15:34:57
209.163.30.65



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to ChadS, 07-05-2003 13:07:32  
DT-407 was found in the 1026 Hydro, 1256, and 1456 (1206 had a DT-361). You should have about 115-130 horsepower right now, depending on what you got the engine from. I don't think the 66 series pump bolts up, if memory serves, the Roosa-Master on the 06 and 56 series turns at 1/2 of crankshaft speed, while the American Bosch pump on the 414, 436, and 466 turns at crankshaft speed. As far as weight, you can lose a bunch by switching to a narrow front end, removing the 3-point, and removing the PTO unit. 856 was pretty light to begin with, if it were mine, I'd probably just leave it. 407 was the best engine IH ever built, it will be reliable. Post on the Red Power forum, there should be a guy over there who used to pull an 856 and will tell you how to do it.

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ChadS

07-05-2003 17:00:19
66.228.96.248



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to K.B., 07-05-2003 15:34:57  
I recently overhauled the engine about 1000hrs ago, brgs,pistons, liners, etc, I also had the injector pump rebuilt and bigger injectors, turned up a litte bit, it will run about 3200rpms, I have a 150 hp M&W dyno, it's not big enough to hold the 856, I can't imagine it being much stronger than 175, that maybe on the high side. How much abuse will the Roosa Master pump take? Is it possible to break the shaft in the pump? Are they famous for a plunger sticking open? if that pump does that.? What would have to be done to install an inline pump on the 407?

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REDMAN

07-05-2003 21:25:56
206.10.109.71



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: IH 856 hot farm in reply to ChadS, 07-05-2003 17:00:19  
I'd check with the rules to see what you can have for a pump and turbo also if you can run a turbo with a adapter or if it has to be standard bolt size.I pulled a 856 about 6 years ago,i'll go along with the fact that they are a tough engine,but they won't produce the power of a 414 or his bigger brothers.you can put a pump off a truck on it,when you get the pump all you have to do is take the adapter plate off the front and ican't remember for sure but i think you have to trim the bottom inside bolt mount so it won't hit the block.had a p-series on mine with a T-08 turned it about 5000 rpm on the line,ran about 4200 on the track,figured somewhere in the 500 hp area.plungers won't stick in a rotory pump and if it is set up right the are pretty much trouble free.

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