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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

3M 7800???

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Adam Paul

05-19-2004 20:09:17




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Hey Guys!!! Wanted to get your thoughts on this face mask... Either filter choices, or positive air use.... Or both,,, good filters to start, and an air supply for the next tractor... Will be using some iso's... Any thoughts, any experiances???
Thanks in advance,
Adam

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Rod (NH)

05-20-2004 21:58:07




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 Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to Adam Paul, 05-19-2004 20:09:17  
Hi Adam,

I have no experience with that particular facepiece but it would seem to be fine if you supply it with a minimum of 4 cfm of breathable air. I agree with CN that you should pass on the cartridges and go direct to supplied fresh air if dealing with isocyanates. Just make sure you get all the necessary pieces, probably optional, (whatever they might be) to enable airline usage. I would also suggest you get a supply of peel-off faceplate protectors to prevent overspray from getting on the actual faceplate which is probably some kind of plastic that will not take kindly to cleaning with paint solvents.

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CNKS

05-20-2004 19:17:36




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 Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to Adam Paul, 05-19-2004 20:09:17  
I don't recognize the mask, apparently has a charcoal filter -- you need a supplied air system which maintains positive pressure inside the mask, preventing any fumes from entering the mask. You may or may not get a reaction the first time you spray iso's while wearing a charcoal filter mask. It isn't worth the risk. The effects are cumulative. They WILL get you at some point in time. Getting one "later" may be too late. For charcoal filters to remove iso's the mask must seal around your face perfectly, almost impossible to achieve. Even if it originally fits perfectly, the least bit of wear will allow iso's to enter. And with the perfect mask, you must also always have brand new, unused filters -- IT WON't WORK!!

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CNKS

05-20-2004 19:27:29




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 Re: Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to CNKS, 05-20-2004 19:17:36  
I looked up the mask after the above post. It does say there is a conversion kit for a supplied air system. Your picture does not show any hoses so I assumed it was simply a full face mask, which it is in the picture. Do NOT use the mask without the proper conversion kit (which I believe costs $466.



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Rod (NH)

05-20-2004 22:02:40




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 Re: Re: Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to CNKS, 05-20-2004 19:27:29  
CN,

I think what you may have seen for the $500 is a "PAPR" kit. That stands for "powered air purifying respirator". As I understand it, that is a packaged, battery powered blower that is typically carried on one's belt. This would provide a positive pressure to the mask, presumably resolving minor face seal issues. But it would still require the appropriate chemical cartridges and prefilters since it takes air from the immediate vicinity.

I do not see any advantage to such a system over direct supplied fresh air unless the work process does not permit being tethered to an airline. In fact I think it is inferior, since you have to deal with the damned cartridge and filter issues. As far as I know there is no "agency approved" chemical cartridge for isos. I am aware of a lab test that indicates some organic vapor cartridges can be effective in removing most isos if supplemented with the appropriate prefilter. Of course the problem (at least for the casual painter) is not knowing when to replace them...or exactly what ppm concentration they would be subjected to in the first place. As you note, I suppose you could use new cartridges and filters for each use, assuming you have an essentially perfect face seal if a neg press mask or if you are using that "PAPR" system. Neither would be practical for the way I do things. I think a mask supplied directly with known fresh air via an airline (or hose) is the only way to fly when using iso-containing materials. I have been doing it that way successfully for a long time. I agree, the matter is too important to half-bake it. Been there, done that, know better.

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CNKS

05-21-2004 14:17:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to Rod (NH), 05-20-2004 22:02:40  
I had forgotten about the PAPR thing. I did a search on the mask, and an air supply was mentioned, did not read anymore -- I would not feel safe with that type system.



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Adam

05-20-2004 21:54:52




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 Re: Re: Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to CNKS, 05-20-2004 19:27:29  
Thanks CNKS!!!
I've been doing some research, and it looks like I could find an air kit in the $150 dollar range... (no deal, price from spendy OSHA supplier) If I keep looking could possibly find for less. Will be getting one though before I start using it...
Thanks,
Adam



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05-19-2004 20:25:21




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 Re: 3M 7800??? in reply to Adam Paul, 05-19-2004 20:09:17  
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I'll try again, but also add a link...

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