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Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

What happened to my paint?

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49 Cubber!

11-15-2003 19:14:23




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Shot 2150 on my Cub back in August,was all nice and shiny and looked good.Went today to get some stuff out of my barn and noticed its all dull looking,no peeling or loss of color,just not shiny and in some places looks like maybe its thin.I shot 6 coats on the hood.Any ideas?Maybe a bad batch on the hood. Ipainted the rest of the Cub with some I had left over,the hood came from new can.




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Kenny

11-16-2003 11:40:58




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 Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to 49 Cubber!, 11-15-2003 19:14:23  
Did you use any hardner in the paint when you sprayed it. Hardner almost always keeps the shiny finish for years.



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49 Cubber!

11-16-2003 15:32:08




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 Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to Kenny, 11-16-2003 11:40:58  
Yes, Iused hardner,what the dealer has,dont know the specifics on it.I did put it on thin but I know I went over it all good each coat.



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CNKS

11-16-2003 16:53:52




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 Re: Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to 49 Cubber! , 11-16-2003 15:32:08  
I am only familiar with PPG hardeners, but this probably applies other hardeners. They have an unopened shelf life of about 2 years, an opened shelf life of 2 WEEKS. After this period is up urethane paint won't cure properly, I don't know what effect old hardener has on enamel. I did not know that when I painted my first tractor (although it says that right on the can) -- and the acrylic urethane did fade and remained soft when I used it after that period, on small parts such as the lights.

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Larry806

11-17-2003 20:34:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to CNKS, 11-16-2003 16:53:52  
I found out the hard way. What happens when PPG hardener out lives the shelf life after opening on enamel paint. The paint developes what appears to be tiny blisters. We painted two trucks for my sons at the same time, by the time we got done some of the hardener we used had been opened three to four weeks. It took several months for the blisters to appear, PPG rep thought that is what it was said next time we bring the truck over he would check,under a microscope it is silicone lumps. He told us, when we open a can of hardener to store it in a refrigerator and throw it away after nine days. We had gotten away with it several times before, but when it messes up parts on two paint jobs I will never try it again. Cubber, I would guess too much thinner to quick. Not that I know all that much.

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Farmall Paul

11-21-2003 06:23:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to Larry806, 11-17-2003 20:34:04  
So many things can cause dyeback. I think most of them were covered. With paint less is more. The less film build the less chance of chips and problems. New cars have very thin paint for a reason, its way more durable. I know it sounds crazy but its true. Luckily your problem should be an easy fix. If you have any skills with a buffer yuor hood will polish right up. If your leary just pull the hood off and take it to a body shop. They can color sand it if nessesary and buff if for you very inexpensively.

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Rusty Jones

12-02-2003 11:56:03




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to Farmall Paul, 11-21-2003 06:23:02  
The problem of how does silicon get into-onto the paint is simple. Either you used a wax containing silicon the last time you waxed the car, truck, tractor, or you used Armor-all on the interior, or put it on something else, like the tires, or mouldings, or somebody in the neighborhood was using it! That stuff flies thru the air, or it lingers around until you get to painting, then jumps out and messes up the paint job! If you didn't use Fin'l Wash or a similar product, like enamel reducer, or Pre-kleano, before you paint, you'll not be rid of the silicone! This is why the mfgrs. came out with the product called "Smoothie", a silicon product that we used to put in the enamel paints to prevent "fish-eyes"! (What makes the paint finish look like Tapioca pudding!) All it took was one squirt from the little bottle, and the paint settled down! My son, who is in body work, says that they don't use the product any more, probably can't even buy it! RJ

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CNKS

11-18-2003 18:13:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to Larry806, 11-17-2003 20:34:04  
You can use an aerosol product called Bloxygen, and squirt in the can before closing. What causes hardener to go bad is air inside after opening -- the Bloxygen displaces the air. There are other products that will work too. You could be right about the 9 days -- the 2 weeks is at 70 degrees, more if cooler, less if warmer. I don't understand the silcone thing. Silicone is the enemy of fresh paint -- it is not in any paint or hardener, but is a contaminant resulting from improper handling. Your problem sounds more like improper surface preparation -- but I don't know that.

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CNKS

11-16-2003 13:41:07




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 Re: Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to Kenny, 11-16-2003 11:40:58  
My dieback occurs with hardener, even with hardener it still takes several days for all the solvents to evaporate. Too many coats too soon will cause dieback. However, I suppose that the lack of hardener will make it worse, but I don't know.



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CNKS

11-15-2003 19:59:37




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 Re: What happened to my paint? in reply to 49 Cubber!, 11-15-2003 19:14:23  
Can't be thin if you used 6 coats, 3 is more like it unless you are way overthinning the paint. There is something called "dieback". I have noticed this on the tractor chassis, which is odd shaped and difficult to paint without exceeding the 50% overlap. It doesn't look quite as bad on cast as it does on sheet metal, but is still noticeable. If you put on one coat, and apply another without letting it flash, or do double passes, instead of the 50% overlap per pass, or unintentionally paint over a fresh surface while trying to get to a difficult area, dieback (fading) can happen. You can also get "solvent pop", meaning a bunch of minature volcanoes, because the solvent below pops out of the next coat if it is too thick or is applied too soon. Hope someone else responds and explains this further or gives another explanation.

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