Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Antique Tractor Paint and Bodywork

using phosphoric acid and primer

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
1951G

04-05-2006 07:47:45




Report to Moderator

I sandblasted my parts for my JD H last week. Then yesterday, I sprayed some phosphoric acid to kill any rust in pits in casting and also to prevent anymore from appearing. Then following the instructions on the bottle, I rinsed the pieces off after letting it sit for about 4 hours. Then I was ready to prime using the sherwin williams gray primer. Before I started laying down this primer I noticed I've got a lot of rust reappearing on the parts. I went ahead and primed the pieces but noticed this morning some of the primer is peeling off. Can I go back and use a wire brush to remove the areas where it's peeling and reapply the rust converter and spray directly over it without rinsing it off? I really don't want to go back and sandblast but don't want the paint job to haunt me either. Sorry for long post but I wanted to cover everything I'd done so far.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Brad_bb

04-24-2006 12:17:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to 1951G, 04-05-2006 07:47:45  
For sandblasted cast iron, I agree that you don"t need a metal conditioner as long as you don"t have rust starting. I am an avid user of PPG DX579 metal prep (mild phosphoric acid solution that you dilute with water) and PPG DPLF Epoxy sealer primer. Both are excellent product and when used correctly will prevent rust and seal out moisture from the metal. The application of DX 679 is different from what you describe though. You apply it diluted per the directions. You can use a scotchbrite pad to do any scrubbing necessary. Application is usually 5-15 minutes tops. It will remove new light surface rust and etch/clean the part in preparation for sealer primer. You need to rinse the parts completely with clean water. I prefer hot water through my heated pressure washer. The how water will help you dry the parts quicker. You then want to use compressed air, blue paper shop towels, fans etc to get the parts dry as quickly as possible. Then get them in primer right away. They you are golden. You can top coat as you like. I like PPG single stage acrylic urethane. What you pay extra for this paint, you get back in durable protection and color hold out.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
B-maniac

04-07-2006 18:46:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to 1951G, 04-05-2006 07:47:45  
Phosphoric acid is not a rust remover or a rust nuetralizer. It does one thing.It chemically etches smooth metal to promote primer adhesion. You not only don't need it on cast,but shouldn't use it on cast or any blasted metal surface or sanded smooth metal. It's designed to use on equipment that is fabricated out of hot or cold rolled steel that is not blasted or sanded before priming. There is no need to use it on a tractor restoration at all! There are a lot of products out there on the market...you only need about 10% of them if that much.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

04-08-2006 14:29:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to B-maniac, 04-07-2006 18:46:16  
There is a reason, and that is to protect bare metal parts if for some reason you don't want to prime right away. I often have bare metal sit for months, as I like to paint when I have enough parts to make it worthwhile. The bare chassis of my 460 sat for a year without priming. I can get away with that because I live in a dry climate. The proper formulation will convert rust in places that can't be cleaned manually. The type of product you are talking about is "metalprep", I think that is a tradename and you are correct about it's intended use. Products such as Picklex 20 will protect bare metal from rust as long as the parts are kept dry. I have used it on cast, but I am careful with it and remove all I can before I paint. I do not agree with your "no need" comment -- It does have a place. However, I am not lazy enough to use such products as rust converters, that is to try to convert the rust rather than remove it -- removal is always better, far as I'm concerned. I use it mainly as a protectant, and I have decided that I probably don't even need to do that, since I have a closed building with very low humidity.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

04-05-2006 09:49:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to 1951G, 04-05-2006 07:47:45  
You have better skip that particular rust converter -- they are not all created equal. There are also none specifically recommended for cast because of the lifting problem you described. HOWEVER, there is a product called Picklex 20, and another much cheaper product called Must for Rust that I bought at Home Depot -- so far they appear to me to do the same thing. You apply with a squirt bottle, even it out with a brush, wipe off all the excess and let it react at least overnight. When I use it it is more like several days. You do not wash it off or, as you noticed, you get instant rust. When the stuff is dry, I remove all the residue I can with a scotch brite pad, then clean the metal as good as I can with soap and water, 409, or other household cleaner -- dry it before rust forms! Then I treat with multiple applications of wax and grease remover until the rags are clean. I then assume that most of it has been removed, then I use epoxy primer followed by topcoat. I have done 3 tractors this way with no apparant problem, but I do scrub it good until I get what I consider to be more or less complete removal. You will never completely get it out of the pores, that is why your paint lifted. Use it next time you paint, but I would not use it at present, you may end up getting too much acid.

I would remove the primer and scrub the pee out of it, forget reapplication and prime again. It sounds like the product you are using is suitable for new sheet metal, not cast, and is a substitute for sanding. If you wirebrush it good, then scrub and dry, then use wax and grease remover and prime, I doubt if you will have any rust problems, provided you prime within a reasonable amount of time -- that depends on your climate and humidity, and whether you are working inside or outside. If outside, prime immediately after cleaning. If you try to spot treat it, the primer/topcoat may lift in days/weeks/months, I simply don't know.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
MI-Bill

04-06-2006 13:23:56




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to CNKS, 04-05-2006 09:49:07  
Where are you getting your Picklex product? Bill in SW Michigan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CNKS

04-06-2006 14:40:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: using phosphoric acid and primer in reply to MI-Bill, 04-06-2006 13:23:56  
www.autobodystore.com -- manufacturer has it cheaper, do a search for Picklex20.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy