Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
:

resistors,reducers and other nonsense

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
*8N45479*

08-29-2003 23:50:03




Report to Moderator

Recently aquired a 48 8N that had a half finished 12V conversion. It has its original front mount 6V coil. I am not electronics savvy, but do have 20+ years in motor-generator rewind and repair. This tractor had a bad wiring job, so with #10 & #14 wire in hand I made a complete new harness. Here is my dilemma,if you want to call it that. I knew that I needed to reduce the voltage at the coil, so I got a 12V to 6V reducer. It took a while to realize that 12V in doesnt mean 6V out, but when I check voltage drop across it I hardly get any reading, do I need to check drop across it and coil? I started reading from the archives and kept seeing references to the reducer and a ballast resistor, so I bought a generic chrysler 1.2ohm BR. If I series this and the reducer, I only get 2V at coil with points closed. Not enough,spark. If I use either reducer or BR I get 3.2-3.5V at coil, good spark. No matter what I use I still get 10.5-12V with points open. Do I risk burning points here?
Finally, this is probably a battery problem. After I got all hooked up, battery turned everything over great, started right up. Had to let tractor sit for 2 days, try to start it today and it was dead. I show no current draw on ammeter with key off, is it possible I'm inadvertantly draining the battery and need to put in a battery kill switch?

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Dell (WA)

08-30-2003 01:52:14




Report to Moderator
 Re: resistors,reducers and other nonsense in reply to *8N45479*, 08-29-2003 23:50:03  
Findout why you are only getting 10.5 volts at the coil with the points open. Its a simple series circuit and it is INCOMPLETE (because points are open) you should get the full applied 12.6 battery volts. (in tech terms E applied)

Since the nominal resistance of the "infamous ballast resistor" is about 1.3 ohms at ambiant tempature and since your Chrysler BR is 1.2 ohms, and since most 12 to 6 volt converting resistors are about 1.5 ohms. your cutting your E applied by twice. Ya gotts an extra resistor somewheres. FIND IT, just for your peace of mind. (and I'll bet you'll find that it is the OEM ballast resistor mounted to the back of the dashpanel)

Bottom line, 3.2-3.5 volts at the frontmount coil terminal is the desired voltage. Use eather the OEM ballast resistor OR the Chrysler BR but NOT BOTH.

As for the voltage drop "across" your 12 to 6 volt resistor, you'll get NO DROP until the series circuit is completed by closing the ignition points.

Series resistors are like flashlight batterys, doesn't matter which one goes first but the light doesn't work untill the switch is closed. I generally put the 12 to 6 volt converting resistor between the ignition switch ON terminal and the ballast resistor's former ignition switch terminal.

Oh yeah, check your ignition switch voltages, both sides against ground. Should be same voltage when turned on. Lotta ignition switches get gunked up internal contacts and you'll loose 1-2 volts, not good.

As for your drained battery, not uncommon to miss-wire and drain battery, specially if ammeter doesn't show amps. Infact, your daily driver, if left parked for about 1 month will drain its battery thru your idiot light and you won't see a thing. Since you start your daily driver every day, you fully recharge your battery mini-drain and never notice it..... ....respectfully, Dell

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
*8N45479*

08-30-2003 06:06:17




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: resistors,reducers and other nonsense in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2003 01:52:14  
I forgot in the last post. You say you put in the reducer and the BR, but when I do that I dont get enough voltage at the coil for spark. Only if I use EITHER the reducer or the BR. And since I gutted all the wiring( I dont trust other peoples wiring) I'm fairly certain there is nothing else in series with either of these.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

08-30-2003 08:46:59




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: resistors,reducers and other nonsense in reply to *8N45479*, 08-30-2003 06:06:17  
you STILL have a hidden resistor somewheres..... Probably ignition switch contacts..... ...Dell



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
*8N45479*

08-30-2003 05:48:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: resistors,reducers and other nonsense in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2003 01:52:14  
Dell, thanks for the reply. The OEM BR was in a box with the regulator and genny so I know it isnt in the circuit. Is it possible that the coil is weak, or is that only going to apply to the secondary. When checking at the post on top of the coil, you are actually checking before it goes through the coil, correct? I never did check voltage at the battery, that may be why I'm getting less than 12V. After I was done testing, I put the charger on the battery and never did see the needle come down from 10 amps after about 6hrs. Think I'll try this again with the batt from my truck.
Thanks again.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dell (WA)

08-30-2003 09:09:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: resistors,reducers and other nonsense in reply to *8N45479*, 08-30-2003 05:48:24  
yes, check your frontmount ignition coil voltage to ground with the points closed at the coil terminal. If'n its the OEM 6 volt square frontmount coil, you should read about 3.2-3.5 volts, wheather you have a 6 volt or 12 volt system. You use extra resistors including the "infamous ballast resistor" and a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor (if 12 volt) to get your coil voltage correct.

Since you claim to know where all the resistors are, you're missing one somewhere (according to the voltage numbers you've supplied) check for BAD IGNITION SWITCH internal contacts.

Also of note, if your ignition coil is "weak", thats usually a sign of shorted primary coil windings which reduce the coil resistance and will lower the coil terminal voltage. (you report 2 volts) By upping the coil voltage (3.5 volts) by reducing the "before the coil" resistance, you are increasing the current thru the coil and POINTS and can burn out the points quickly.

Ignition coil primary winding shorts out because of overheating and melting the insulative tar by originally supplying too much volts (which increases the amps) at the coil terminal.

If you charged a 12 volt battery for 6 hrs at 10 amps, you've probably got a bad battery. Take it into a real battery store for a "free check"..... ....Dell

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
*8N45479*

08-30-2003 16:59:42




Report to Moderator
 Re: Re: Re: Re: resistors,reducers and other nonse in reply to Dell (WA), 08-30-2003 09:09:30  
Hi Dell, Went out and checked Battery voltage, I'm hardly getting 10.5 volts at the battery or anywhere else in the system. Think there's my problem. And I'd have to say the coil isnt so good either. As you said, I have to remove resistance before the coil to get my 3.2-3.5V. Guess I'll be getting another coil. Maybe I'll just get a 12V FM and do the 2-paralleled 1ohm 5watt resistor cheat.
Thanks for the help!!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy