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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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37 B- sandblast or cook parts????

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Rob in MI

05-24-2007 16:46:45




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When you bring a head or block to an engine shop, they usually "cook" the part so it is nice and clean. My question is, would I be able to do most of the parts of a tractor like that? I was going to ask my engine repair man if he would cook some parts for me, like the valve cover,frame,pedistal, and whatever else I can take off of the tractor. I am working on an unstyled B, the previous owner had it in a shed for 16 years, but they had painted it so there is virtually no rust on it, so I figured maybe it would work to cook each part instead of sandblasting. I guess the cooker is around 700 degrees, would there be any parts that I couldn"t cook? I am also wondering if anyone has tried powder coating the manifold and exhaust pipe?

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skip 33652

05-25-2007 06:37:53




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to Rob in MI, 05-24-2007 16:46:45  
There are several types of cleaning methods used in machine shops.I use caustic soda at about 150 degrees.then I usually sand blast those parts. i use the caustic soda bath to get rid of oil and grease as well as most of the paint and sand blast to remove rust and scale. but after reading your post again I think your shop may have the newer baking system. basically they bake parts to a high enough temp to get rid of grease and oil and paint then they shot blast or roll in steel shot . an enviromentaly sound practice that makes a part come out looking as new.depending on cost you could probably run the whole tractor through there.be carefull of small or unreplacable( parts made from unobtainium) parts. Paul

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Rob in MI

05-25-2007 10:19:14




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to skip 33652, 05-25-2007 06:37:53  
Yes, that is the set up he has. I have had him do 4 different heads for me, and know I had him do the block for my 37 B and got it back the other day, it looks just like new, and he is willing to do whatever part he said will fit. The block of course had alot of rust in it, when you look at it know all I can say is WOW!!



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F-I-T

05-24-2007 17:11:50




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to Rob in MI, 05-24-2007 16:46:45  
Your shop probably cooks the parts in a hot alkali bath, using Sodium Hydroxide (lye) as the basic salt, also called "hot tanking". That does a good job on enamels and grease, but it can take much longer to remove modern acrylic paints, epoxy coatings, calcium and rust deposits, if at all. Abrasive blasting does a geat job to remove everything on the surface, but it takes some of the base metal along with it, and it can warp thin metal parts and erode finished machined surfaces.

You might want to try the electrical equivalent of hot tanking by using an electrolysis bath. Using a low voltage power supply, such as a 10 A battery charger, to ionize a conductive fluid (typically washing soda and water) so that it works like lye, in fact much better than an alkali cooker because it lift the deposits as well. The most impressive added beneift of the e-tank is that any red rust will either float away or be converted into black oxide, which is inert to further oxidation. The surface can be rinsed with clear water (hot makes the part warm so ti dries faster), spritzed with some phosphoric acid to flash phosphate protect the clean iron/steel from re-rusting, let to dry, then scuffed smooth with some red Scotch-brite, and the part is ready for paint.

It's cheap, safe, and effective. Pretty muich like aspirin. I have a document that I can e-mail you if you would like to study the "how-to" of the process. Shoot me an e-mail at frank@fboerger.com if you would like me to forward you a copy.

On the powder coating, I've seen it tried, but I have never seen it stand up on the high temperature side. You really need to use a ceramic product like Jet-Coat if you really want it to stick, stay, and not dis-color.

Frank

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Nylon

05-24-2007 21:37:43




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to F-I-T, 05-24-2007 17:11:50  
This may be dorky but I use stove / grill paint on hot parts. I did my muffler in black and am going to do the exhaust manifold in black as well. There are several stove colors but none look reasonable to me other than black. I know that it is not correct but works for me.



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P Browning

05-25-2007 08:14:57




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to Nylon, 05-24-2007 21:37:43  
Nylon -- Here we have a choice of using stove-black (very reasonable compound to buy) versus one like Muffler Black which you can buy at your Deere Dealer. (And please -- I am not one of the corect police. I respect your choices).

But my question revolves around the objective of rust-prevention. If you expect to prevent rust, I do not think the stove-black will serve you very well. And I also believe that even for Muffler Black to prevent rusting, you need (1) to apply to clean, bare metal, and (2) to have driven moisture out of the part. The latter is accomplished by bringing it up to a fairly hot temperature long enough to have drawn out the moisture -- then you apply a quality muffler-black while it is still hot -- some say -- inside & out! The kitchen stove does wonders here for the manifold.

All this seems hardly worth the effort for an ordinary restoration for two reasons (1) You either have to mask off the manifold during paint, or remove it and reinstall it AFTER paint; and (2) There is a 50% chance that rust will come into play at a later point because so many of us are aware of the rather extraordinary preparation needed, and do a half of the job!

An interesting side note here -- In messaging with the Paint Engineering section of Valspar, I learned that they believe the Muffler Black will hold up to its rust-prevention properties even if, during paint, you shoot green over it. The green (of course) will burn away over time.

I am building up another New Johnny, and I have applied JD Muffler Black to the exhaust pipe, muffler and manifold. My plan is to go forth with a final engine run-up before final paint, and then pull the manifold for paint. I am using semi-hard brass nuts on the manifold studs which makes removal easier. They will still withstand the 45 ft-lbs of torque I apply without question. I bought an extra manifold gasket for this very purpose. And so if I did the preparation steps right, it should look pretty for a long time. My thoughts on this one! (PatB)

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Mike M

05-25-2007 08:22:45




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 Re: 37 B- sandblast or cook parts???? in reply to P Browning, 05-25-2007 08:14:57  
The only thing I have found to hold up is aluminizing I think is what he called it. My cousin used to work at a machine shop that had equipment to spray build up shafts and you could run aluminum wire and spray manifolds too.

The black paint looks nicer but will burn off when you work them.



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