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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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466 engine vs 531 engine

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rjb

06-14-2004 17:59:56




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I was just reading that the 466 engine is more reliable than the 531 engine...How can this be for a specific given horsepower? I thought the more cubes you spread a specific horespower over generally the more reliable that engine was...is this true?




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buickanddeere

06-15-2004 08:42:26




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 Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to rjb, 06-14-2004 17:59:56  
The 466 is part of long lineage. It started out in 1961 for production in the 4010. Stretched to 404cu" for the 4020, 466cu" in the 40 series and now 8.1 liters for 7000 and 8000 series tractors. If there had been demand the 531/619 could have been upgraded. However with emissions regulations the 12.5 liter was designed from a clean sheet of paper to avoid compromise. The 300-345HP 366 cu" small block Chev in todays pickups is a far cry from the 265/283 of the 1950's. Still shares the same bore centerline.

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G-MAN

06-15-2004 10:33:41




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 Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to buickanddeere, 06-15-2004 08:42:26  
The next "stretch" of the venerable 400-series (although it's been the 450-series since the intro of the 6081) is on the horizon. A new 9.0 liter (6090) 4-valve common-rail engine that will replace the 6081. EGR and all the other emissions gizmos as well. Up to 400 horsepower in some applications. I think it's supposed to come on the scene in 2005. Possibly in conjunction with a new 8000 Thirty Series tractor lineup. The 12.5 will be getting opened up to 13.5 liters and 600 horsepower. The 12.5 is currently at 550 horsepower in the 9620.

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JDGnut

06-15-2004 19:44:00




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 Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to G-MAN, 06-15-2004 10:33:41  
The 400hp level was easily obtainable with the 8.1L HPCR... and meet Teir II (and that was at 1800 rpms.)but Tier III is very tight.. GMan I believe the 9.0L will be available in the near future... but for OEM use until the 30's are out... There is info.. at the deere.com page... Duty cycle does play a part in this too.. (If they have it.. they push it too the max.. and want more..) I can't wait to get my hands on one of the 9.0's.... hehe... (it won't be soon enough... haha..) JDGnut

(They sure have pushed the cubes in the small block deeres... I can't wait to see a 9.0 in a 4020.. hahaa..)

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G-MAN

06-16-2004 10:25:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to JDGnut, 06-15-2004 19:44:00  
Do you suppose any of those 4-valve heads will find their way into the pulling world? I'm not up on the rules or anything, but it seems that a guy could build an adapter to mount a standard nozzle in the head and do away with the common-rail set-up.



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F-I-T

06-15-2004 15:58:46




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 Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to G-MAN, 06-15-2004 10:33:41  
G-Man:

What is meant by "common rail"? Is this like a common fuel rail on fuel injected gas burners?


Frank



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G-MAN

06-16-2004 07:41:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to F-I-T, 06-15-2004 15:58:46  
On the Deere engines, there is a two-piston pump that supplies fuel to a "common rail" that all six electronic injectors receive their fuel from. That pump supplies system pressure, and the injectors meter when and for how long it can get into the combustion chambers. Injection pressures can reach over 20,000 psi.



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jacksun

06-15-2004 17:41:14




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to F-I-T, 06-15-2004 15:58:46  
10-4 frank they usea common rail with a preasure regulator and electricaly controlled injectors they did this to the cummins back in the 90s to meet emmissions the big cams became n14s.they are also computer controlled.



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buickanddeere

06-15-2004 13:06:37




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 Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to G-MAN, 06-15-2004 10:33:41  
Wonder what the surviving Deere engineers who laid out the 4010/3010 engine ever dreamed of this being possible? 400 HP from this engine series used to be a souped and finicky beast looking for a chance to come apart on a pulling tractor. Not something from the factory with a warranty. Wondered why a factory that prided themselves in "just in time delivery" was stock piling 8.1 and 12.5 engines this past spring.

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leon

06-15-2004 03:59:54




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 Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to rjb, 06-14-2004 17:59:56  
There's a lot more things important to engine reliability other than spreading HP out over cubes. For example, bore spacing, rod and main bearing diameter and width, casting wall thicknesses, materials, heat flows in the design , cooling system, materials and manufacturing quality, etc. After the 531 was stretched to 619 there were several reliability problems but most eventually got pretty well taken care of. As a broad sweeping statement, I'd say that the 466 is a better engine than the 619.

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Indydirtfarmer

06-15-2004 08:33:44




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 Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to leon, 06-15-2004 03:59:54  
The 531 was a stone reliable engine in the 5010/5020. When it was wanged up to 175 rated HP, for the 6030 (and actually produced some 225 HP) it was stretched to the limits for that time. Then it was pushed even further to the 619. Head and head gasket problems began to surface. new technology corrected the problem, but they had aquired a reputation by that point. The 531 is a good engine, but the 466 is a GREAT one. The 466 even handled being cranked up to 180 HP, and beyond, with no real problems. Just a basic GREAT design. John

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Dan50

06-15-2004 20:22:39




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 Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 06-15-2004 08:33:44  
Got a question. Is this 466 we are speaking of at all related to the well known DT466 engine commonly used in about a bazillion diffent medium duty trucks manufactured by Navistar International?

Just curious...



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Greengo

06-15-2004 23:59:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to Dan50, 06-15-2004 20:22:39  
NO it is not.



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G-MAN

06-15-2004 10:35:36




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 Re: Re: Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 06-15-2004 08:33:44  
WELL beyond 180 horsepower. With a few important updates and changes, the 6466 became the 6076, and I've seen those cranking 260 horses at the PTO in 4960s. They're stout - plain and simple.



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JD 5020 guy

06-14-2004 21:22:10




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 Re: 466 engine vs 531 engine in reply to rjb, 06-14-2004 17:59:56  
They are both good engines in my opinion. I have a 5010 with almost 8,000 hrs on it with no problems and it had a turbo on it which probably didn't do it any good. I know of several 5020/6030s with 7,000 hrs or more on them without an engine overhaul



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