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habine vs. mower and rake

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Farmerwannabe

03-06-2008 09:48:56

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Hi guys, Do you feel a self-propelled haybine would be a better way to go than getting a sickle mower and rake? I don"t think a sickle mower leaves the hay in a row for baling, does it? I"m getting stuff together to farm about 40 acres of mostly grass hay and am trying to figure which way to go. With a haybine, I figured I"d need one pass instead of cutting and raking. What do you all think? Thanks again for your insight.

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mkirsch

03-10-2008 08:35:43

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to paul, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

RICK165 said: (quoted from post at 10:27:41 03/08/08) why do you have to wait untill the dew is off befor you can use a haybine

You wait until the dew is off to RAKE, not mow. But, generally by the time morning chores are done and breakfast is eaten, the dew is off anyway...

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kossuth

03-07-2008 09:42:57

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Randy-IA, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Usually our baling process goes like this. Mow around 11 am to about 5 or so. If the humidity is down and we won't get a dew run over it with a tedder that day 2-3 hours after mowing. If the humidity is down we'll be able to rake about 11-12 that morning and start baling between 3-4. If the dew or humidity is a factor you won't get the tedder on the field until morning/afternoon on day two and you won't get it raked and baled until day 3.

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RICK165

03-08-2008 09:27:41

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to kossuth, 03-07-2008 09:42:57

why do you have to wait untill the dew is off befor you can use a haybine

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Texasmark

03-09-2008 08:30:06

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to RICK165, 03-08-2008 09:27:41

The drier the better as the cutters get gummed up and the more gum the less exposed blade so the cutting efficiency goes to pot and you have to slow down to keep from skipping.

There is enough moisture as it is from the juice in the stems.

Mark

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mkirsch

03-07-2008 06:38:20

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to flying belgian, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Brush Hog type mowers shred the grass into little pieces. You don't want that. It won't hold together in a bale.

Mower/conditioners (haybines) do NOT "rake" the hay. Whether you use a sickle bar or a haybine, you still need to rake the hay at least once, and usually twice. You need to flip the hay over so the bottom can dry out.

The advantage of the haybine is the conditioner, which crimps the hay stems, giving the moisture more places to escape during the drying process. This speeds up drying by 1-3 days.

Haybines also have adjustable chutes which allow you to drop the hay in a swath, or a windrow. For dry hay, you want to drop it in the widest swath possible to maximize exposure to the sun. If you drop the hay in a windrow ("raked" as you put it), it will still be sopping wet in the middle when you go to bale it unless you live in a desert.

The basic hay making process is:

1. Mow

2. Condition (optional)

3. Dry in the sun for 2-4 days

4. Rake to expose bottom to sun

5. Dry in the sun for 1-2 days (sometimes can bale the same day)

6. Rake to expose the dew-soaked bottom to sun on baling day as soon as the dew is off the grass in the yard

7. Start baling between noon and 2PM

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farmerwannabe

03-07-2008 04:00:50

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Do bush-hog type mowers take more leaves off than a sickle mower, or are they about the same when it"s all said and done?

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John S-B

03-06-2008 16:34:20

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

This is what I use, I only paid $600 for it. I do have a sickle bar mower that I use as a backup. I've had to replace a few bearings on it. A B won't run a big a sickle bar mower very fast. I mow about 40 acres.

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Hay DR

03-06-2008 15:21:03

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Get you a drum or disc mower and a tedder. You will put grass hay us as fast anyone. Drum & Disc mowers will mow as fast as you can ride in any condition. You can NOT mow with a haybine in the morning until the dew burns off but with a drum or a disc mower you will be finished mowing before you can start with a haybine.

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495man

03-06-2008 14:52:02

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

A Haybine (IH Harvester trade name for a mower/conditioner) solves the above problems even though it has a sickle bar.

Mark[/quote]

Haybine is a New Holland trade mark.
I realize different climates have different climates, but here in atlantic Canada you'd have a damn near impossible time making hay with just a haybine, usually have to mow(or mow condition) , ted (once or twice) then rake, then bale.
We used to hay with out a tedder.....took several days to make hay and even then there would be green slugs....

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Texasmark

03-06-2008 14:56:14

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to 495man, 03-06-2008 14:52:02

Correct on the NH Trademark.....well at least I got the Red part right. Grin. Sorry. I knew better just had a senior moment..... haven't had it for several years and forgot.

I never had a tedder till several years ago and it solved the problem mentioned. Only problem was it was an additional trip to the field.

Mark

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Texasmark

03-06-2008 14:43:06

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

I have used a rotary cutter (bush hog type thing) and rake and had successful small square bale hay production.

I don't like a sickle mower as, unless the grass is thin, dry like in summer, and on a square plot, (which is NEVER) you can't cut it without making lumps that do not cure at the rate of the rest, plus it has no conditioner (to crush the stems) of thick stemmed plants. So, other than non crimping, if you are cutting a small stem plant, you have to come back with a tedder to scatter the hay so that it will cure..... ask folks in Maine about curing hay!!!!! !!!!

A Haybine (IH Harvester trade name for a mower/conditioner) solves the above problems even though it has a sickle bar.

Mark

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Dan in Houston

03-06-2008 12:18:32

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

The idea of a moco for one pass cutting / conditioning / raking is hard to resist. In practice, we didn't have much luck with it if you set the windrows narrow so that you don't have to rake. The bunched up hay in a narrow windrow takes too long to dry, even though it has been through the conditioner. We quickly gave up on the no-rake idea and always used a rake behind the moco. We even had to get a tedder to help the drying process, but we were in central WV, heavy night dew, high humidity, and moderate temperatures. Sometimes it seemed that we would wear the hay out before getting it baled - cutting, tedding once or twice, raking, then baling.

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old

03-06-2008 10:33:15

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

I use a haybine with the windrow parts removed because the hay dries better spread out then it does in a windrow. Either way you will still need to rake it or the bottom of the windrow will not dry as it needs to. But a haybine does speed up the drying time by about 1/2 over a sickle bar. So no matter what you need a rake.

Hobby farm

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Balatonm

03-06-2008 10:26:13

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

A haybine will probubly save you fuel in the long run because you can cut,condition, and windrow all in the same pass. 9out off 10 times you will still need a rake to turn the windrow over to speed up drying, but it's better to beable to get as much done as possible with less fuel and equetment.

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Brokenwrench

03-06-2008 10:09:00

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

IF you already have a tractor, a self propelled for 40 acres is just more to maintain. I agree, I`d go with a pull type. Depending on your area and weather, and how heavy the hay is, you may still end up turning it anyway. If the hay is heavy you might have to turn it to dry it, if it`s thin you might have to turn a few windrows together to pick it up decent with the baler. I use a haybine, because I cut grass, alfalfa, and mix hay. If it`s straight grass hay, it probably doesn`t have to be conditioned, and might even dry faster laying spread out, but you will for sure have to rake it into windrows to bale it.

So whatever you get, you`re still gonna need a rake or tedder, cause you can`t always beat mother nature..

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Farmerwannabe

03-06-2008 10:07:45

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

I guess I was asking because there's a haybine near me for sale on this board's classified section for $2400 in "excellent" shape. I need to buy both the mower and rake and was wondering, in the long run, which would be best. There are a few acres here and there in the area I'd be able to bale as well as the 40 acres we've got, but that's about it. I'm not even sure if a haybine leaves a windrow or not, to be honest. I guess I'm just trying to figure out the best way to go about things, so I appreciate your advice.

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Brokenwrench

03-06-2008 10:12:43

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 10:07:45

A haybine or moco depending where you`re from cuts the hay sends it through a conditioner(crimper) and leaves it in a windrow. A mower just lays the hay flat on the ground behind it.
Hope this helps. BW

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JMS/.MN

03-06-2008 11:21:39

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Brokenwrench, 03-06-2008 10:12:43

Haybine is the registered New Holland name, moco is a generic term for other similar machines, but they can all be set to leave anything from a wide swath to a windrow. Just need to adjust the windrow forming shield. Simple adjustment, no tools, move a lever on a Haybine.

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Farmerwannabe

03-06-2008 10:47:16

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Brokenwrench, 03-06-2008 10:12:43

So it sounds like a sickle mower and rake would be my best bet, plus, I could use our little Allis B with these implements, I think.

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Brokenwrench

03-06-2008 11:11:19

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 10:47:16

If the B is your biggest machine, then yes.
If you have a bigger tractor with live power and hydraulics (haybines are all fairly tongue heavy), then I would go with the haybine, and a rake. Just more versatile over all. You can cut with one, and put the rake on the B.

All depends on what you have, can afford, and how muck time you have. If you`re like me and have too many irons in the fire most days, I wouldn`t have the time to chase around 40 acres with a 5-6 foot sickle mower. With a 9 ft haybine, it`s less trips. Plus you only have to rake the windrows, not the whole field...

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farmerwannabe

03-06-2008 11:35:23

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Brokenwrench, 03-06-2008 11:11:19

The B is the biggest I have right now. I am looking at an Allis WD or similar to pull a square baler. The haybine I was looking at was self-propelled, BUT I didn"t know I"d have to rake anyway, so it wouldn"t really save me an extra trip around, I guess.

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Randy-IA

03-06-2008 18:40:34

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 11:35:23

Hi , I hope you have a lot of reliable help that's not afraid of hard work if you are really thinking of small squares from 40 acres . That'll be something like 2500 - 3000 plus bales per cutting . I gotta say - the mowing and raking is the easy part . Good luck ! ...Randy

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Brokenwrench

03-06-2008 12:06:08

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 11:35:23

The B being your biggest tractor, kinda makes me rethink the self propelled thing.
If the one your looking at is really in 'excellent shape', that might not be a bad deal.

I think the ones of us who have been around farming a long time kind of assume that everyone has an assortment fo tractors of varying sizes around.

I think the one clear thing is, no matter what you do, you still need to find a decent rake :)

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farmerwannabe

03-06-2008 13:02:58

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Brokenwrench, 03-06-2008 12:06:08

I guess people have been cutting with a sickle mower, raking, then baling for a long time, with lots of critters not seeming to mind too much. I think that"s what I"m going to end up doing. Now....to tell when the hay"s ready for baling. You guys with experience put us newbies to shame!

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MoMike

03-06-2008 10:01:43

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

If you are in an area with high humidity you will still need a rake. Dropping directly into a windrow will add a couple of days to drying time over swathing and then raking. Far west USA maybe able to bale direct without swathing.

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Josh in WNY

03-06-2008 10:01:11

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Usually hay is left in a wide swath till it is almost dry enough to bale and then it is raked. I don't know if mowing into a windrow will allow the hay to dry properly before you bale it.

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Josh in WNY

03-06-2008 10:00:58

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Usually hay is left in a wide swath till it is almost dry enough to bale and then it is raked. I don't know if mowing into a windrow will allow the hay to dry properly before you bale it.

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TomTex

03-06-2008 09:57:13

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Re: habine vs. mower and rake in reply to Farmerwannabe, 03-06-2008 09:48:56

Would not think you would want a self-propelled haybine for 40 acres. Why not a pull type PTO-driven haybine. Tom

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