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Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long)

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Pycoed

10-25-2007 15:04:00




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I have a Long 445DT which comes fitted with a factory remote hydraulic valve intended to operate a double acting cylinder via two quick connects at the rear. Down feeds one connect & up feeds the other. It has previously been modified so that the lever-down valve outlet is piped to a spool block operating the front loader & a return pipe from that spool block delivers oil back to the transmission/tank. The lever-up outlet remains connected to a single rear quick connect.

So, to operate the FEL controls I have to hold down the factory valve lever with my right calf so that the FEL controls work, This is a bit inconvenient , but I could live with that. Now it starts to get a little more complex!...

I have just added a backhoe, originally a subframe type for some unknown tractor. The subframe was not suitable for my 445 'cos it fouled the 4 WD output & I wasn't keen on the hassle of fitting & removing the subframe. I chopped & welded the subframe & welded on some mounts for a three point mounting, which seems fine & is easy to fit & remove. I have no rocky ground or heavy digging – I need the backhoe for ditch clearing & general drainage work in a marshy area.

The backhoe uses the tractor hydraulics i.e. one pressure connection to the spool block & a return to tank. I used the existing quick connect for the pressure & added another for the return to transmission/tank. Now holding the remote lever up with a bungee, the backhoe controls all work well, except I have a problem: I am relying on the TPH arms to remain in a set position so that I can use the backhoe leg jacks to firm up the setup for digging. However when I down the boom, dipper or bucket to start a dig the TPH arms move up.
I have deduced that the TPH arms float if the remote valve is in use. Is this a correct deduction? Position control works fine when using a brush hog /mower/ rake etc so I think the TPH is OK. Can anyone suggest a way around this, short of using a PTO pump & separate tank for the backhoe hydraulics?

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Pycoed

10-27-2007 13:21:13




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 Re: Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long) in reply to John S-B, 10-25-2007 15:04:00  
No - it doesn't physically raise itself, it just doesn't stay down, if you get my drift! Once the downforce on the dipper exceeds the weight of the backhoe the arms allow the hoe to raise. I've since found that I should have used a diagonal brace to prevent the use of the TPH when using a backhoe, but I had hoped to be able to lift the whole shebang with the arms for transport. Looks like a need a MkII !

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plowboy 1

10-26-2007 18:05:18




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 Re: Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long) in reply to Pycoed, 10-25-2007 15:04:00  
I don"t know if this helps; My 3 point has a valve/spring arrangement so if there is too much pressure (like hooking a rock while plowing), the implement raises automaticly. When your digging, is your 3 point "feeling" the pressure and raising?



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Pycoed

10-26-2007 06:03:35




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 Re: Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long) in reply to CliffordPaul, 10-25-2007 15:04:00  

Gerald J. said: (quoted from post at 06:09:15 10/26/07) Nearly all three points are single acting and lift the implement only. No down pressure. When I used a back hoe on the 3 point on my MF-135 I looped a sturdy chain from the 3 point pins down under the drawbar mount under the axle. That held the hoe down. Now that I've moved the loader and hoe to my 4020 I need to do the same thing there. I used double ended three point pins on the hoe, so I have an unused end available for that chain.

Gerald J.


I realised the TPH arms would not provide downforce, but I thought they would passively resist any upforce as they seem to do when using a brush hog. Perhaps I am wrong about that too! I assume your chain method means that the TPH will not lift the backhoe for transport & you just retracted the legs before moving leaving the hoe at a set height?

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Gerald J.

10-26-2007 08:18:44




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 Re: Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long) in reply to Pycoed, 10-26-2007 06:03:35  
Yes, my chain resisted the three point lifting and the legs retracted by folding up on my Long 1099 (made for three point) plenty far.

The three point has very little passive resistance, its the raw weight of the mower that holds it down.

Gerald J.



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Gerald J.

10-25-2007 21:09:15




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 Re: Backhoe/TPH hydraulic conundrum(long) in reply to Pycoed, 10-25-2007 15:04:00  
Nearly all three points are single acting and lift the implement only. No down pressure. When I used a back hoe on the 3 point on my MF-135 I looped a sturdy chain from the 3 point pins down under the drawbar mount under the axle. That held the hoe down. Now that I've moved the loader and hoe to my 4020 I need to do the same thing there. I used double ended three point pins on the hoe, so I have an unused end available for that chain.

Gerald J.

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