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JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil?

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drtrcer

11-01-2004 10:23:55




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15 hp 2 cyl.water cooled kawasaki-Mower started skipping like it was flooding blowing black smoke, cleaned carb,changed air filter, and changed plugs 2 times.
Can back spark plug wires off of plugs alittle
and it will run good.




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drtrcer

11-04-2004 11:08:53




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
Well men a couple of you lost me but I've tried
a few things. Removed plug wire end, which is some type of resistor. Replaced with a straight
end,replaced plug with non resistor and would not
run. Put in a resistor plug and will run but not great. Checked on price of a control module/
ignitor from JD $250.00!!!!:( Thanks for all
your help,maybe I'll have it running right by
spring?

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Rocke219

11-02-2004 17:52:04




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
Bad Condenser/Replace



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teej

11-01-2004 23:07:08




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
Sounds like the cap on the end of the plug wire is bad. They are replaceable, and a kawasaki engine dealer, or your JD dealer can get them. Have replaced them on machines that do exactly as you describe.



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txblu

11-02-2004 06:52:50




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to teej, 11-01-2004 23:07:08  
You mean the wire to metal cap connection (up under the boot) is corroded and thus broken open?

If the circuit is broken, it'll jump the gap out to 1/4 inch or thereabouts. Seems to me that that sort of problem would go unnoticed unless you accidentally caught it with an ohm check of the leads, or visually.

Mark



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JT

11-02-2004 07:02:05




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to txblu, 11-02-2004 06:52:50  
Mark,
Alot of them are using a spark plug end cap with a resistor built into the spark plug cap. The resisitor will burn out and then you will loose fire. Bosch is making them and can be bought at an auto parts store if they are good parts people, Kohler uses a 5000ohm resistor in their ends. Have had a lot of problems with some Kohler engines doing that this year.Don't start getting technical on me on this either, you will loose me faster than a hat in a windstorm.
Jim

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txblu

11-03-2004 08:18:03




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to JT, 11-02-2004 07:02:05  
Ok about the techies. I ramble on the keyboard while I'm thinking. I know that things are caused. Iffin I can understand how something works, I can follow the workins till I find something that doesn't fit the senario. Usually by "letting my fingers do the walking (yellow pages jingle of old)" my mind has time to come up with some possible solutions.

On the resistor.

Interesting that they chose to do that. Guess their coils are more reliable to connect up (windings to output lead) with solid wire rather than the wire we have on our trucks.

Now the resistor would be (see I'm rambling) there for only 2 reasons that I know.

1. Limit radio interference. But, I don't know of a lawnmower with a radio or other electronics..... .other than digital status monitors, which could be the reason.

2. Or it could be to limit the current thru the circuit. When the plug fires, the voltage across the gap goes to a very low value. There is nothing but the winding resistance of the coil to limit the current. This could be bad for the points and the plug electrodes in terms of erosion. The resistor would limit this current to a definite maximum. Current limit is normally in the primary circuit, but resistance in the secondary can be reflected to the primary and make it appear to be much more resistive than it actually (physically) is.

One last blab. If the resistor burns open, there becomes 2 gaps to jump (the gap of the open resistor and the gap across the plug's terminals).

Probably the ignition system has enough whoopie to jump both at first. Then as the resistor gets eaten away, the gap there gets larger and larger and then with the gaps too large, the voltage can't jump across both and the plug starts fouling.

That's all fine, but it doesn't explain the fact that the engine in question here, ran better with (yet another gap) the cap backed off some.

Mark

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JT

11-03-2004 09:00:53




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to txblu, 11-03-2004 08:18:03  
Mark,
being you brought it up, the resistor ends are used on EFI engines with an ECU to run the whole system. Honda & Kawasaki for reason unknown also use this kind of wire end on some of their engines. I know this is off the topic started, but you brought up some interesting points to ponder. Now to really add fuel to the fire, Champion came up with a plug a couple of years back called a one tug plug. This was the old booster gap plugs champion used several years ago, somehow by having an additionla gap in the line of fire, it increased the intensity of the spark and made engines easier to start. This electricity thing confuses me, so I find your post interesting, but sometimes way over my head.
Have a good day.
Jim

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txblu

11-04-2004 08:45:03




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to JT, 11-03-2004 09:00:53  
I remember in the past where there were "resistor" plugs. May still be there. I think they were popular during the transition period between solid wire and resistor wire.

Any spark booster in the plug is an additional gap. What the additional gap does is this. Back to theory; sorry.

In a coil, when you attempt to interrupt current (points open in this case) the nature of the beast says this: I'm going to generate whatever voltage I have to in order to keep that current flowing (within it's limitations).

Nothing much happens in the secondary (high voltage side) until the points open. When this happens, since it is abrupt, it generates an abrupt voltage in the high voltage secondary. If the voltage on the primary raises to keep the current flowing, so also does it in the secondary.

Theoretically, if I double the gap I essentially double the voltage that the coil will generate in an attempt to keep the current flowing. This allows the coil output to raise to say 30,000 volts rather than the 18,000 it usually goes to to jump a .030 plug gap.

This is useful in firing a fouled plug as a fouled plug will usually bleed the voltage off as fast as the coil delivers it and it is a snowballing process. With this setup, once it's high enough it jumps both gaps and you get a spark in the combustion chamber whereas you wouldn't otherwise.

"and that's the rest of the story" (Paul Harvey) Grin.

Mark

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txblu

11-01-2004 12:38:24




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
So what did you do when you backed the wire off the plug?

You allowed the voltage output of the coil to build to a higher value before it was absorbed in firing the plug.

So what builds the voltage higher in the coil otherwise? The Voltage across an inductor is produced by L di/dt. Which is the inductance of the coil times the change in current divided by the time in which all this occurs.

So what can affect what?

If the coil had shorted turns, it wouldn't have the correct value of inductance (L). The output voltage would be low.

To switch the current at the given rate, you need a switch capable of doing that. If you have an electronic ignition module that is semiconductor driven, the semiconductor could be lazy or not getting the correct drive. This would produce a lower than normal current and resultant low voltage.

If it was a point condenser thing, the points could be pitted or the condenser could be leaking (partially shorted) bypassing the snap action of the points. If the condenser slows this interruption enough, there is no interruption (so to speak) and no output voltage produced.
Since you were able to increase the gap, and the engine ran fine, the coil apparently operated satisfactorily at a higher voltage which suggests that there is not an internal short.

That leaves the switching mechanism...ignition module (points or condenser/scr whatever).

Or, there is something about the plugs that allow the charge to bleed off before it gets to a high enough potential for sufficient plug firing. I would first think of dirty insulators, but having changed them twice, doesn't lend it'self to being the problem.

Course dirty plugs could very well be the problem caused by excessive fuel, which also causes black sooty smoke, caused by an improperly set float valve.

Or a SLOPPY FLOAT LIKE IS PREVALENT NOWADAYS WITH NYLON SUPPORTS RATHER THAN BRASS. The nylon allows the float to rise to the top of the bowl without supplying adequate pressure to the inlet needle valve and shutting the fuel off.

Gapping the wire just made a gap (which you apparently didn't have in the plug due to dirty insulator bleeding voltage off before it could jump the plug gap) allowing the coil to get to voltage which it couldn't when black sooted insulators were bleeding it off. Been there done that.

Nuf Said.....now that you are probably totally confused. Start with the float (and clean plugs) then the switch (ign module) and last the coil.

Mark

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JT

11-01-2004 12:12:53




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
I do not know if this one has one, but usually we have more trouble with ignitors than we do coils.



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lucas boy

11-01-2004 12:06:57




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 Re: JD LX178 weak spark? bad coil? in reply to drtrcer, 11-01-2004 10:23:55  
sounds like coil/ignition module



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