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860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix.

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Donovan

05-15-2007 17:28:55




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Hi I posted here a month ago or so, trying to fix up a ford 860 with a seized engine.

I pulled the head, and the pistons all looked fine, no rust still silver. i took the start out and started moving the ring gear, and the pistons started moving.

Sparkplug 2 was not in while it set for many years.

Piston 2 was at the top when it sat. when i turned the ring gear with a pry bar, i got the pistons in the middle to go down while the others came up. I was going to try to get one full engine rotation. Then when piston 2 started coming back up, the sleave was comming up with it.

Is there any way to quick fix this, or do i have to resleave and get a new piston.

Thanks,

Donovan

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Brian Bell

05-17-2007 07:52:55




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
My '51 8n had a similar problem when I bought it. It had already pulled a sleeve into the sump from a not so tight fit and moving up and down with the piston. I replaced that sleeve with a new one and it was a really tight fit (my engine was a .040 steel sleeve block (8N-B casting) overbored to accept the updated cast iron .090 sleeves). The #3 cylinder sleeve was loose and moved with the piston too. I went ahead and pulled it out. I cleaned the block and put a new sleeve in it. It was s really good tight fit with the new sleeve too. Bottom line, should be tight without the sleeve locker compounds. If a stock OD sleeve is loose, try the .005 oversized ones. The oversize may require a little bit of honing to get a good fit. Most tractor shops and machine shops I've talked to do not recommend the sleeve locker compounds. Hope this helped.

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Donovan

05-16-2007 16:04:17




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
If i use the sleeve locktite will i ever beable to get the sleeve out again if something goes wrong?

I read up on it and it seems like it has a lot of holding power even at high temps.



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gerard

05-16-2007 14:27:56




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
Skycarp has the answer. Most Ford dry sleeves are loctited in. However, you say the piston is seized in the liner. With the head off, it"s not impossible for the liner to rise up in such circumstances. I"d get the liner/pison as high as possible, then disconnect big-end and drive out rest of way using a hardwood stick from below. Once out, put liner/ piston in boiling water & see if it loosens on cooling down - if not, try penetrating oil or diesel. If you can get it apart, it"s judgement whether you can use either item again or not. May need new liner & piston.

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DouginMI

05-16-2007 04:44:50




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
Hi Donovan,
Advice I was given on this topic and glad someone did. A cheep or quick fix is just that. You can over look something and be right back where you started. I was going to replace a piston that was a problem and found that was not the only problem. I posted pics of 860 pistons on the parts & pieces section under galleries on the left side of this page. What I"ve found working on my 1955 Ford 860.It is a dry sleeve engine. There are press fit and hand fit sleeves available. I"ve pulled the sleeves out of my 860 and they were tight. Used a puller with 3/4" all thread and they pulled out hard. There are Standard and over bore sizes too. If you don"t have a manual get one. IT man. Ford shop man. and or a rebuild dvd off this web site. They are worth the $. If one sleeve is that loose the rest may not be far behind. Be a good time to take a good look at the valves and head. You said pistons looked good no rust, pistons won"t rust there aluminum. Don"t mean to be on the negative side, but just things I went through working on getting my 860 back together. I would at least pull piston #2 and sleeve. Measure sleeve in and out and piston. Check rod bearing for wear. Check main bearings also. Sounds like alot, but its allready apart. Guess this is not a quick fix answer.

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Bob/wis

05-15-2007 21:11:47




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
Hey Donovan I replied to your other post. How many guys ran into the 172 with out sleeves?
Bob



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Keith-OR

05-15-2007 21:38:45




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Bob/wis, 05-15-2007 21:11:47  
Bob, my understanding the sleaveless 172's started with the 101 series Ford tractors, blocks with the new type oil filter. I have 2 of the newer sleaveless motors, one is a 172 and the other is 192 CI both are industrial engines.HTH

Keith & Shawn



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RodInNS

05-15-2007 19:46:28




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
That is a dry sleeve, and it's supposed to be an interference fit. My line of thinking would be to send the block out and have a new sleeve properly fitted. I don't know anyhting about setting them in with loctite, or whether or not that's an acceptable practice. Generally, those sleeves are frozen and then dropped in place. They should not move under any circumstance.

Rod



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Skycarp

05-15-2007 18:33:58




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
Ford 172 engines use dry sleeves. The loose sleeve needs to come out. You will need to clean the bore and sleeve real well with a good cleaner. Then go to NAPA and get some sleeve locktite and follow the directions on the package.

If you do not glue the sleeve with sleeve locktite (heat resistant properties) the sleeve will work loose during operation of the tractor and it will destroy itself. I know for a fact it will.

I would suggest that you buy an I&T manual #FO 20 soon also.

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CENTAUR

05-15-2007 17:55:39




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:28:55  
Is this a dry sleeve?If so just push it back down with your ring gear trick.Transmission fluid will probably fix the (stuck part).CENTAUR



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Donovan

05-15-2007 17:58:29




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to CENTAUR, 05-15-2007 17:55:39  
How do i tell if its a dry sleave?



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old

05-15-2007 18:06:04




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 Re: 860 Piston stuck to sleave, need to fix. in reply to Donovan, 05-15-2007 17:58:29  
If I remember right the ford 172 enigne was a dry sleeve type engine. If it isn't one way to find out is fill up the water jacket with water. If it leaks into the pan its a wet sleeve engine if not its a dry sleeve engine



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