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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need servicin

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Billy NY

07-08-2004 16:52:32




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I've got both brake assemblies, ready for overhaul and was looking in the service manual at the wheel bearing behind the backing plate and wonderd what lubricates these, are they an oil bath type that receives oil from the rear diff. case ? I see the oil seals which leads me to believe they are a seperate compartment.

Was wondering if they need service. It looks like a job to disassemble and probably not necessary unless there is a problem, but figured I'd ask while its apart. I've never heard any creaking like you do when the front bearings need service like mine did, the grease transformed into a tar like substance on those front ones.

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Dave H (NY)

07-10-2004 08:08:25




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 Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need serv in reply to Billy NY, 07-08-2004 16:52:32  
Billy, I recently did the axel seals and bearings in my 56 860, I see George and I have differant tractors and I like George am unsure if the 801's and 800's are setup the same. If you feel like doing the job while it's apart it is a days work and a total cost of about $175.00 from New Holland. The one thing to consider is if the seals begin to leak (now that you will have new brakes and will be generating some heat) it will ruin the new shoes so if you are in doubt about their condition it is something to consider. When I did mine I cut the retainer out with a torch and then turned the axel assembly over and banged the axel on the ground while holding the backing plate and everything came out. All in all about three hours a side from start to finish using all new parts, and be sure to pickup a few new shims in differant thicknesses from NH the old ones will be brittle and you may need to add a few.

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Billy NY

07-10-2004 10:04:24




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 Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need in reply to Dave H (NY), 07-10-2004 08:08:25  
I see there may be a difference in the assemblies, but both sides are completely dry so I'm thinking that it should be OK, but you know Murphy's law LOL, I think I remember reading a post or 2 when you did yours. When they, leak is that the unauthorized coversion kit to wet brakes LOL ?

Kidding around aside, that'd be 100 bucks down the drain if they soak up oil, although I've learned of methods that extract oils from friction materials from people posting problems about steering clutches on caterpillar crawlers, on the acmoc site, to avoid disassembling complex assemblies, seems that they can be salvaged in a lot of cases.

I'm not heavy on the brake pedals, this tractor sees moderate use, mostly on the weekends if at all, I'm going to upgrade to a newer model with at least live, independent pto, remote hyd. etc, then I think I'll do a teardown and ground up restoration on this 850, that would be a better time to do things like these bearings unless the seal(s) fail before. One good thing though, at least I'm familiar with the assembly already. Thanks for the cost information as well !

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Hurley J. D.

07-10-2004 07:43:36




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 Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need serv in reply to Billy NY, 07-08-2004 16:52:32  
I bought a 1964 4000 ford utility tractor a couple of years ago. You could grab the top of the rear wheels and shake the wheels back and forth. I pulled the rear axles and took them to my local New Holland dealer. The dealer was the Ford dealer for about 60 years before the New Holland buyout. They replaced the bearings and installed new lock collars. Price $375.00. I thought this was reasonable. It takes some deep pockets to get and keep an old tractor in top shape now.

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Billy NY

07-10-2004 09:49:28




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 Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need in reply to Hurley J. D., 07-10-2004 07:43:36  
I'd say the money was well spent, definitely one of those things you would consider having a shop do, especially if they have the "know how", special tools and back up their work. Kind of similar to a final drive on a crawler, pays to bring them in sometimes, again if the shop has the specialty tools, "know how" etc.

60 years, that's great, where is the dealer located ? (just curious) Ford made a good tractor, it was hard to see the CNH take over.
They did away with their heavy truck line too, now Sterling makes them.

We had a Ford Tractor dealership when I was a kid, was there since the 30's, have a photo in with a dozen 8N or 9N's on the lot, was at least 40 years in existence, my father was successful selling more on the contruction equipment end, as agriculture was becoming so-so, he was sucessful in selling backhoes to local utility company, they had been buying another brand & he worked hard to get the account, Ford Motor company executives told him the other dealer in the area was slated to sell const. equipment and the relationship eventually failed, as these executives started demanding unreasonable payment terms on a big sale, 29 backhoes ! I never understood why people are the way the are, we were selling one their lines successfuly. It was sad to see the dealership become defunct because of this, as a kid, there was no better place than that shop in the summertime, the old time mechanics, who have all passed away in the last 10 years, lot of 8N's and up were always in the shop, plus the new ones on the lot, that parts inventory alone would have been nice to have today ! Still have some odds & ends, mostly nuts botls & washers left over, few nice keepsakes from the dealership, like my cherished PAM illuminated Ford Tractor clock that use to hang on the parts counter wall. There was a local guy who did beautiful restorations on Fords back then, I made sure he got all the misc. left over obsolete N.O.S. parts, that I found in the old shop. I remember all the old tools, workbenches, wooden drawers etc. in the old shop, they kind of just left everything the way it was when they moved into the new shop attached to one side. Different way of life back then. Rambling here LOL, good ole days are fun to remember ! The best was, one year ago, one of my best friends bought a 640 with the one arm loader on it, beautiful original condition, it had our dealer sticker on it when I went to look at it I saw it right away, I think I'll eventually buy it from him, it's in good hands now, but what a find, was on my birthday, it made my day !

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Hurley J. D.

07-10-2004 17:31:42




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 Re: Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they n in reply to Billy NY, 07-10-2004 09:49:28  
The dealership that I use is in Hopkins County Texas the town is Sulphur Springs. I think that the dealship started as The Banks Company and could be older than the 60 years. Bill Larue bought the dealershp and renamed it Dairyland Ford Tractor. It is now Dairyland New Holland. Bill Larue retired this year and his son now operates the dealership. There are still some mechanics working there that are my age, and they are talking about retiring. Hopkins County at one time had a lot of dairys, but there are very few now. There was a lot of watermelons and sweet potatoes raised in the area also but that is also about gone. Very few farmers, ranchers and dairymen here now. nearly all retired folks. I miss the days of past in my mind but do not want to go back. My father was a watermelon farmer,not big as they are now, he farmed 50 to 100 acres each year. Acreage depended on how much land he could rent. Always used Ford tractors and thought that if a better tractor was made then Ford would be making it.

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Dave H (NY)

07-09-2004 05:02:47




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 Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need serv in reply to Billy NY, 07-08-2004 16:52:32  
Billy, the rear axel bearings are lubricated by the differential oil, they are not serviceable by simply removeing the backing plate there is a sweat collar that locks the bearings onto the axel shaft and it has to be cut off to acces the bearings or inner seal. The job is very labor intensive so unless you have a rear seal leak don't bother them. When the time comes to replace bearings or seals there are a bunch of us who have done them and we can give you specifics if needed.

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Billy NY

07-09-2004 06:29:54




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 Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need in reply to Dave H (NY), 07-09-2004 05:02:47  
Thanks Dave, it's one of those situations " while I've got it apart...." but in this case if it ain't broke, don't fix it ! Knowing that its is lubed internally and I have no leaks, and then seeing what the book shows on disassembly, no need to go any further !



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Geo in SD

07-09-2004 04:53:14




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 Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need serv in reply to Billy NY, 07-08-2004 16:52:32  
I believe as long as you have the brake assemblies off I would pull the axle and brngs and clean and repack. The old original grease is probably pretty well dried out.



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Billy NY

07-09-2004 07:31:45




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 Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they need in reply to Geo in SD, 07-09-2004 04:53:14  
Conflicting reports ..... . no problem really appreciate the assistance regardless,..... Hmmmmm.... Back to the book ( original Ford shop manual 1955-1960, pages 260,261) shows the disassembly procedure, ( looks like fun LOL ) now leads me to beleive that the 3 oz. of grease called for to pack the bearing, could be the only lube that bearing gets, and that the inner oil keeps the differenial lube from going any further, damming it up in the axle housing, and does NOT lube this bearing, UNLESS..... there is a hole in the axle and what is shown on page 259 ( top cut section dwg.) showing an inner and outer oil seal, either retains oil delivered from the axle or is there to retain the 3 oz. of grease you pack it with. Obviously the inner seal keeps dams up the oil in the axle housing, funny how fig. 5 "axle shaft assembly" page 261, does not show this outer seal.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I hope the latter is true, because it would seem this would be a weak design, having to go through that everytime to pack that bearing, knowing that other bearing assemblies which are hand packed with grease require regular service. I also agree that the grease, if any left, would have to be worthless after almost 49 years !

I'm going to have to re-assemble at this point, I'm not even sure where to get a puller like that, although I've got a good ability to fabricate something once I understand it, and or have the local machine shop assist in doing so as well. I'm sure someone has come up with a solution on that at some time. If it is a grease packed bearing, definitely a job to tackle when you are doing a ground up restoration for sure. I've always been of the mentality to take the time do a job right, hate taking shortcuts, so, I'll re-assemble under protest !! LOL

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Geo in SD

07-09-2004 13:08:55




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 Re: Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do they n in reply to Billy NY, 07-09-2004 07:31:45  
I hope I didn't give you wrong info on this. I don't have the book for the 850 here. I am going by the 801-861 etc. But methinks they are the same. You just unbolt the 9 bolts and pull the axle and bearing assenbly out being careful not to damage the inner seal. clean up as best as possible , relube, and slide the assembly back in, being careful to keep the shims in place. The late 8N's had a bearing setup like this also. If you put sureseals in a 9N or 2N you had the same setup. The 9N and 2N originally had their bearings lubed from the diffy.

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Billy NY

07-10-2004 09:12:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 850 rear axle wheel bearing, do th in reply to Geo in SD, 07-09-2004 13:08:55  
I think they are essentially the same, by virtue of unbolting/pulling the assembly out, but its the bearing cage and or retainer that needs to be cut out, as it prevents access to the bearing. It is hard to figure out by the book as to what actually lubes it, one of those things you just have to do to figure it out.



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