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CRANK SAFETY

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RODGEinIL

02-23-2008 06:02:24

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Hi all.. Just saw something last night(Friday) on RFDTV that made me shudder.. I think it was some show like the Georgia Farm Monitor or something like that. Anyways.. they showed the host was at this tractor show and they were cranking this W40 or 30. Dang.. he grabbed that crank handle like a ball bat and started swinging it like he was rolling down a window! Hospital visits don"t add to much to the hobby. Let"s all be careful out there.

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LenNH

02-25-2008 08:32:54

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

My father had an arm broken by a Model T that he was spinning. Question for those who"ve had experience with battery ignition on Farmalls: Is there enough automatic retard in the distributor to keep the tractor from kicking?
Agree fully with the advice on checking the impulse for engagement. On some magnetos, like the F4, you can hear the pawl dropping into the notch in the coupling. It makes a little jingling noise as the pawl drops into the notch. I always listened for this on F-12s and F-20s. On our 10-20 with the E4A and manual impulse set, it was a good idea to watch the pawl to make sure not only that it was in the first time you pulled up, but that it did not fly out if the engine popped a couple of times but did not run. All impulses--as far as I know--have some sort of over-center spring device that keeps them out of engagement once they have been thrown up hard enough. Hand cranking does not give enough impetus to flip the pawl up and keep it up(I was thinking of saying "enough impulse to flip" but that would be a corny joke and I wouldn"t think of making a corny joke). The engine firing two or three times might give enough of a spin to throw the pawl up out of engagement.

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LenNH

02-26-2008 10:35:37

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to LenNH, 02-25-2008 08:32:54

Rethinking what I said in my previous note: The automatic impulses must be kept out of engagement by centrifugal force. They can engage when not spinning and the pawl is not thrown out.
Can somebody who knows more about this than I do confirm this, or if not, explain how the automatic impulses are kept out of engagement when running?

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Tom Fleming

02-25-2008 03:22:48

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

Cup your hand, with your thumb along your fingers. Only crank on the "up stroke". Use short, quick up-strokes. As soon as the crank is nearing 11 o'clock on the up stroke, back off with your hand. For the F-4 mag, make sure the spark advance is only about 1/4 to 1/3. I also keep graphite powder on the pully where the crank engages ( or on the extention in the case of the F-20, H, etc.) BTW, this is for you right-handed folks like me.

On the older mags, make sure the impulse is set on the mag. On the older mags, sometimes you will get a "pop", and no start. It is important to check the impulse coupler BEFORE you attempt to crank again. On the mags older than the F-4, you need to set the impulse. when you get a pop and no start, you need to set it again.

A couple of other things I was taught by an old timer, the first one always applies.

1.) before you turn the ignition on, put on the choke, open the throttle to about 1/2. turn the engine over 1-2 times. Then turn the ignition on (or unground the mag). Then use the above method.

2.) For tractors that have a distributor, and easy method for starting in cold weather. Coils operate on voltage. When you use the starter, the voltage drops dramatically. Lower voltage, lower spark output. In cold weather, I will crank start any of my 6 volt tractors using method outlined in #1. By using the crank instead of the starter, you get "hotter" spark, due to no voltage drop from using the starter motor. I have actually tested this, and it works every time (that is if your ignition components are in good condition). My success rate using this method is darn near 100% starts on the 2nd crank, and always a pop on the first.

One last note, placement of the "arm not in use" is also important. I haven't been "bit" on my cranking arm, but I have been "bit" on the other one. I had my left arm on the rad housing on my F-12, while I was cranking with the right. Old girl "popped" in the wrong direction. Right hand was fine, but crank bit me on the left wrist. No broken bones, but was sore as hell for 2 weeks.

I am sure that others have slightly different techniques, but this has worked for me over the years.

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Up North Louie

02-24-2008 10:01:54

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

Everything I have is electric start, but that's likely to change.

Would anyone care to outline how to go about doing this as safely as can be done?

Thanks,

Don

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Farmallgray

02-24-2008 08:13:38

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I see that on those shows on RFD all the time and I cringe every time I see it. My wife gets mad when I yell at the TV :-)

Like some of the others have said; if the mag is set up right and everything else is in tune, they will start with only upstrokes. My Dad has a Minneapolis 27-42 cross-engine. It has extension rims and with them, you can only use upstrokes. The extension rims wont let the crank won't spin the whole way around. That engine is over 500 cubic inches and it starts cold with 3-4 upstrokes of the crank.

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NDS

02-23-2008 16:15:03

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I ran a hand crank F20 for several summers when I was a teenager and have been alergic to cranks ever since. In my opinion the place for a crank is hanging on back wall of tractor shed. If it will not start I fix it or pull start it.

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El Toro

02-23-2008 15:04:56

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

Here's where a crank from a garden tractor got a man in KY. He'e lucky it wasn't broken. Hal

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CNKS

02-23-2008 13:02:33

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I grew up cranking tractors, never a problem, including those who worked for us. My understanding is that a mag equipped tractor is less likely to kick back than a distributer equipped one -- ours had mags. A crank is still handy, even on a distributer equipped one. You can start it with a "dead battery". Just enough charge left to fire the engine, not enough to turn the starter. You simply have to be careful, there are many ways an old (or new) tractor can kill or injure you. This type of post always seems to get a lot of responses for some reason. I usually keep my fingers quite.

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James Williams

02-23-2008 11:20:43

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

When a tractor kicks back it means the tractor is smarter than the one cranking it

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MN Rick

02-23-2008 09:12:29

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I've reached the point in my life that when it comes to cranking tractors, I "just say no".

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wegman in mn

02-23-2008 11:05:10

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to MN Rick, 02-23-2008 09:12:29

my dad had to crank grandpa's super c in the late 70's and it kicked him in the jaw and still has a slight bump where it happened.

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F-Dean

02-23-2008 07:29:28

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

Every time I crank one of my tractors, I can still hear my Dad, "Did you retard the spark? Do you have your thumb back?" Maybe that's why I have never been "kicked." I have cranked F-20s, F-30s and W-30s hundreds of times and I still hear Dad!

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steelfronts

02-23-2008 07:12:13

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I cant believe how many times I have seen this done.It makes no sense,however if it was a W40 which is a six cyl it is about the only way to do it.

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Janicholson

02-23-2008 07:20:37

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to steelfronts, 02-23-2008 07:12:13

I usually agree with everything you say, but not this. Pulling up only, with fingers and thumb on one side of handle, and no spinning allowed, is still pulling one cylinder through one pass through TDC. Why would it matter that it is a six? Any time a person can't do a job safely someone elce should do it. No offense, just concerned. JimN

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steelfronts

02-23-2008 11:55:06

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to Janicholson, 02-23-2008 07:20:37

Jim
Just to explain. The W40 is a hard to crank tractor.The strokes are only 60 degrees apart so TDC doesnt happen at the top and bottom of the crank stroke. Even if you just pulled up like normal and it kicks back you are only at ten oclock.There isnt enough time to get out of the way and if you hang on it'll shorten your spine.The only good answer is to have timing and impulse working properly and having it start in one or two times around and be younger than say 25 or so

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Fred Milner

02-23-2008 16:36:44

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to steelfronts, 02-23-2008 11:55:06

I have a PK 40 power unit and crank it one turn at a time every time. It is the same motor as the w 40, I have a w 40 also. I pull up and if it doesn't crank I do it again. If you have it tuned up and set right it will start a lot easyer than you think. I have 10 hand crank tractors that I take to shows and play with. I have had them kick back but it always something that I did or didn't do right. If you keep the mags working right and good fuel in them they will start good for you. Now that I said this you know I will get hurt the next time I start one. You know how life does you. Just be careful and have fun. Fred.

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Janicholson

02-23-2008 12:31:43

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to steelfronts, 02-23-2008 11:55:06

I concede your point, I would be very careful to keep my thumb on the side of the fingers! A careful preparation is needed. JimN

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fixerupper

02-23-2008 07:08:21

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

My grandpa used to help the local doctor set broken arms that were hit by a crank back in good old days.

The patient was laying down, grandpa would sit so he could put his foot in the patient's arm pit and then he would pull on the arm as hard as he could while the doctor felt the bones and worked them back in place. This was done with no pain killer exept maybe a pint of whiskey.

I experienced a light kick from a Wisconsin engine once and I've never forgotten it. Jim

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John M

02-23-2008 06:46:02

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

I used to do that with my 14, until I broke my wrist in 4 places.

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Janicholson

02-23-2008 06:21:26

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to RODGEinIL, 02-23-2008 06:02:24

What a poor example for TV to use, I'm sure the director and camera operator were unaware of any display of foolishness. Fortunately it is very rare for viewers to get a chance to copy the dangerous tactic. Owners of crankable machines (usually) have determined it is poor policy. JimN

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hughb

02-23-2008 08:36:53

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to Janicholson, 02-23-2008 06:21:26

Two of my least favorite things to do. One was to hand crank a tractor. The other was to hand prop an Aeronca 7AC that I used to fly. The tractor would break your wrist but that prop would take your head off. Most of us "older than dirt" folks all knew farmers who had been bitten by that hand crank.

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Wesley Stephens

02-23-2008 12:47:18

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Re: CRANK SAFETY in reply to hughb, 02-23-2008 08:36:53

Due to the sad state of the electrical system on my Cub, I usually hand crank it, but I always remember the advice of old men who have told me how to avoid getting a broken arm.

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