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Dumbest Question Yet

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Allan In NE

10-08-2006 03:29:46




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Okay, IH 414 engines.

The two little pet-cocks on either side of the anti-freeze filter. They should be "screwed out" for open and flow, right?

Two tractors, one with a new engine and one with a new oil cooler both came from the shop with these valves closed (to my mind) or "screwed in".

Did the shop just forget to open 'em back up after their service?

Allan




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Jossette

10-08-2006 06:51:50




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:29:46  
run them a while and then see if the filter is hot or cold..easy check



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IaGary

10-08-2006 04:29:18




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:29:46  
Mornin Allan

Yes both shutoffs are your normal shut off valve you know. Righty tighty lefty lucy.

I forgot to open them on dads 966 years ago and boy did I catch the dickens.

This cummins motor in the combine has the filter right above the alternator so you can spill a little antifreeze on the alternator every time you change it.

Gary



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Nebraska Cowman

10-08-2006 03:56:28




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:29:46  
I almost think they are lefthand thread so you turn them left to open which screws them in. Clear as mud to me. I always endup taking a hose off to check.



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Bill in oh

10-08-2006 03:56:24




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:29:46  
The two pet-cocks on the anti freeze coolant filter should be threaded out for flow.Some times guys will close them if they get a filter leak rather that change the filter.



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Allan In NE

10-08-2006 03:57:57




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Bill in oh, 10-08-2006 03:56:24  
I think the guys changed the filters on both of these tractors and just forgot to turn the darned flow back on.

Same as not having a filter to start with. :>(

Allan



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Hugh MacKay

10-08-2006 03:40:09




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:29:46  
Allan: Not exactly sure whick taps your refering to, mainly because my memory is rusty. However there were two taps I use to shut off to stop coolant flow to the cab in warn weather. The heater would just fight against a/c all day and you would have a rainstorm in there if you left taps open.



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Allan In NE

10-08-2006 03:55:10




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-08-2006 03:40:09  
No, not those two.

There are two additional fittings on the steel coolant filter line. They are smaller and located one each side of the filter.

And, while I have you on the phone, I'm toying with the idea of buying eight "eyes" for the lug bolts in order to mount my snap-on duals on this tractor next summer.

I think the air conditioning is gonna spoil me when it comes time to do summer fallow. This soil is "gumbo" and the tillage tractor really needs floation to keep from leaving a "footprint".

Didn't you say something about snap ons breaking axels at one time? Is this a bad idea?

Allan

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Hugh MacKay

10-08-2006 05:30:16




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Allan In NE, 10-08-2006 03:55:10  
Allan: That coolant filter has always been a sore spot with me. Back when I bought the 1066, I knew nothing about cavitation and the necessity to reduce the problem with coolant filters. IH sold me that tractor without a water filter. Even three years later when the dealer was encountering some problems, I was not told. I found out one day when tractor was 8 years old and very close to 10,000 hours and my coolant started dropping. IH determined that since I put the hours on that fast, that helped in slowing down cavitation. To me, that was little consolation, as had I been asked at 9,000 hours, I would have told anyone my 1066 was headed for 15,000 hours before first engine rebuild. As far as I was concerned that would have been performance plus. Instead I was left saying I'd never buy another IH new, big tractor as long as I lived. Lets face it I was left with an engine not only requiring pistons and sleeves, but the crank had to be turned. Turning a crank on first engine rebuild, left one awful sour taste for IH

On the axle versus clamp on duals, the problem I am aware of happened with 806 and 856 equiped with clamp to axle inner wheels. It never occured with wedge locks. Around here in ON just about every 856 has wedge locks, and a couple of dealers told me snap on duals was the reason. Where I farmed in Nova Scotia, I was one of the first to go duals. My duals were axle mount, mainly because dealer sold then to me at same price as snap on's. I have a friend who was farming 2500 acres of tillage crops back in the mid 70s using 2-1066, a 966 and 2-656. Those 1066 never had the 20.8x38 snap on duals off. He had axle duals on his 966 as he used it planting corn 30" rows equiped with a saddle tank sprayer. I know he never had any problems, or I'd have heard about it.

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lee

10-08-2006 17:55:01




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-08-2006 05:30:16  
What is this cavitation problem? How did the filters fix it? Curious. Never heard of it.



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muggsw6

10-09-2006 04:57:11




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to lee, 10-08-2006 17:55:01  
The "filter" was not so much a true filter as a block of conditioner that released itself into the water over time to help prevent cavitation.
Mark



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Hugh MacKay

10-08-2006 18:13:53




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to lee, 10-08-2006 17:55:01  
Lee: Cavitation is a problem, mainly in large engines, but always those with wet sleeves. Coolant being against the sleeve deteriorated the sleeve from water jacket side, until they developed holes into the cylinders. These holes were only pin holes, thus a operator had a crankcase with substancial anti freeze before he noticed it.

Water filters did not eliminate the problem, but did slow it down. One interesting item I've noticed is most tractors without filters went 6 to 8 years regardless of how many hours were on the clock. My tractor had a lot of hours for 8 years, but I've also seen 8 year old tractors with 2500 hours and cavitation did them in.

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IaGary

10-08-2006 18:35:51




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Hugh MacKay, 10-08-2006 18:13:53  
Hugh

Our 966 was 5 years old and had only 2500 hrs.

When it pitted thru.

Gary



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lee

10-09-2006 07:09:15




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to IaGary, 10-08-2006 18:35:51  
It seems that this would be better described as accelerated corrosion due to galvanic action (battery effect, dissimilar metals) between the block and sleeeve where the sleeve has become the sacrificial anode much like the anode in a water heater where they sacrifice the heater tank anode rather than corrode the copper pipe in the home. Did IH term this cavitation? Sounds like they had poor material choice with regard to the sleeves or some other problem with the design.

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Dr.EVIL

10-09-2006 14:32:45




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to lee, 10-09-2006 07:09:15  
No, Cavitation is the erosion of metal due to the coolant in the waterjacket boiling in small localized areas and the result is tiny pin holes eroding thru the liners or cylinder walls.... as the engine goes thru the compression and power strokes the cylinder walls flex slightly under the pressure and when the pressure is relieved the cylinder returns to it's normal shape & size and the coolant can't react as quickly, the pressure in that area is reduced which causes the coolant to boil until the pressure is increased. And cavitation is NOT an IH issue only, Cummins, CAT, Perkins, even JD engines can and will cavitate....the only thing required is heat and high cylinder pressure. There are supplimental coolant additives available that plate the insides of the cooling systems with molybdates and silicates that are sacrificial in that they erode instead of the iron cylinder walls. The fact the ones made for the IH built Ford PowerStroke engines is made by Fleetrite which is a division of CUMMINS shows it's not an IH only problem. Galvanic corrosion isn't the problem.

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lee

10-09-2006 18:55:51




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 Re: Dumbest Question Yet in reply to Dr.EVIL, 10-09-2006 14:32:45  
Thanks Dr Evil, I'll research that.



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