Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Valve grinding

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Kelly C

01-31-2006 21:16:17




Report to Moderator

Well after figuring out the machine shop wont pull a valve out of a head for any thing less than $100. That does not count if he actually needs to fix any thing.
If I want to be able to afford to keep at this hobby. I better find me a old valve grinder and learn how to use it.
How many heads you had off a project that does not need the valves cleaned up? Every one for me so far.
Any suggestions?

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
the tractor vet

02-01-2006 07:54:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
I went that route , Bought a real good valve grinder and seater and all the mandrel and stones and i know how to do machine work on and engine from the line boring block boring sleeve repair and all the rest of it well i had well over 800 bucks tied up in the set up and then comes the time that OH wait i need to replace the seats oh ok i"l just pop the old one out and drive a new one in wrong i did not have the equipment to cut a new counter bore for the seat and the standard set now fit to loose as far a installing guides if it is a pres fit guide not a big deal ya just have to hace the correct set of drivers not a big deal nothing that a dollar bill won"t cure so we bought them but still could not install the seats . And over time replacable seats have to be replaced as they start getting to wide and deep and on a diesel if the valve head gets to deep then the engine becomes hard starting and if you install a new seat then the valve must be set at the correct hight or if it standing out to far then it will hit the piston and then oh wait the head is warped and you have to have a TRUE STRIGHTEDGE not just and old framing square now you need a head surfacer so we got one of them and we did use them maybe 4 times a year but i still did not have a set up to cut the bore for the seats , and one day while setting in the door way of the shop taking a break i thought of just how much time i wa wasten tryen to be the mechanic and the machanic and the machinest and still not having what i needed and still having to run to a machine shop for the boring and seat instalation or having a block bored and a sleeve installed or a deck refaced or a line bore done or rods sized when a buddy of mine had the latest a greatest state of the art machine shop east of the Mississippi . He could do a head in less time then i could drink two beers and i am talken replacing all the seats all the guides and grind or i should say cut all the seats at a 3 angel and the valves were all set where they should be . And his Head surfacer was fifty time faster to set up to true a head the the one i had and in two cut it was done one rough cut and one finish cut and he had the hot tank that only took 20 min. to clean the nastest head or block where i would spend over and hour with the steam cleaner getting burnt then and nother hour with the wire bruch on the die grinder picken wire brisel out of me and still not have the ports cleaned out . So all went BYE BYE . ANd if i needed something fast i would run it up to Dick and tell him i need this now and would tell me you know where everything is at and i would DIY and the nice thing about it is he stocked ALL the parts needed for guide work and seat work and valves on hand at his shop. So lets see one hour up a couple hours there and one hour back i would have been still tryen to find parts a cleaning and the head was going back on . So Kelly find another shop as we have one of them guys around here that charges to much and if ya want it now it will be 6 months before ya see it. Well Dick had a heart problems and i had to go on the surch for someone else and now i have to drive and hour and a half but they don"t rip me off and i can no longer DIY but they do a good job .

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Kelly C

02-01-2006 09:56:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2006 07:54:20  
Hey Tractor Vet. I am not talking about when you need to have a complete valve job. If it needs it then thats the way to go, have the pro do it. What I am talking about is when all you really need is the Valves and seats cleaned up. It cost 1/2 to 2/3rd the cost to just go ahead and have the whole thing done.
Not worth putting $600 into every old tractor just to get it running so you can leave it in the shed to start 3 or 4 times a year or run in a parade.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
the tractor vet

02-01-2006 10:31:27




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 02-01-2006 09:56:29  
That is whyya find a nothe shop that is way to much and always remember this that ALL i h's come with hard seats and stelite exhaust valves. a plain hot tank and valve job should not cost more the 150 buck and even with refacing the head and new guides no more the 250.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RustyFarmall

02-01-2006 08:58:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to the tractor vet, 02-01-2006 07:54:20  
Where did you find ALL of that equipment for just $800?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
the tractor vet

02-01-2006 09:28:03




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-01-2006 08:58:40  
It is not what ya know it is WHO ya know and other then the valve grinder it was old stuff . Now if i wanted to get the good stuff a real good seat and guide machine would have set me back about 25-30 grand and for a stationary boring bar like my buddy had just a mear 1/4 mil for it then 85 grand for the line bore and 7 grand for the machine to do both ens of the rods with all the mandral and the cap grinder . That is i looked into getting set up to do injection work yea wright if i had that kind of bucks i would go on a five year vacation and live large.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob

02-01-2006 07:41:01




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
I have an older KO LEE valve refacer, and a Sioux valve seat grinder with LOTS of pilots and wheels, both of which I picked up quite reasonably by watching "For Sale" ads.

I also have a KO LEE hardened valve seat installer set, which I seldom use.

To ream heads for guides, I use a imported vertical mill for which I've made jigs to hold some of the common cylinder heads I work with.

I bought the mill cheap on a tool sale some years ago, and the piloted reamers are not too bad $$$ wise to buy.

I don't have over $2000.00 invested in the whole setup, and, at the cost of engine machine work nowadays, payback is pretty quick!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Brian Schmidt

02-01-2006 07:16:40




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
I have done a lot of head work in my lifetime starting in high school auto and ag shop. I quickly learned that this work was not at all difficult but did require some learning to do it correctly. Good tools are a must. I did probably 20 sets in HS using the shop tools. Since then, I picked up a Souix seat grinder at an auction for $25 that included many stones, dresser, pilots, etc. I thought it was quite a steal. It works very well. I also picked up a valve grinder for $15. It needs work to get it going, but will work fine. My experience is that most of the time the valves need replaces anyway. So I was not too worried about getting it running right away. The valve guides have always been a different story. You do need to have them done at a machine shop. And a valve job is a must after the guides go in. I have seen some shops ream the guides out and install a thinwall guide by hand. I have never tried this, but it seems like it might work. You do need to size the finished bore and that takes a good ream.

Bottom line is, you can do it yourself. However, it may or may not be worth the investment of not only money but time to get up and going.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Janicholson

02-01-2006 06:26:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
My opinion is that it is interesting, relatively easy, and can improve the performance of engines, even slow speed tractor engines, when done with finesse.
K.O. Lee, Souix are fine names (of old) that serve industry. The valve grinder table top unit is the most expensive component.
Automotive engine rebuilding texts from an author named CROUSE are fine additions to reading. Performance valve machining/porting is another topic area that is important.
3 rules:
1}Margins on valve heads are to be no less than 1mm.
2}Seat should contact face at 75-78% of the distance from the smallest part of the face toward the margin.
3} seat should be dressed at an angle one or two degrees less than valve so that the contact between them is a narrow ring at the above mentioned ~3/4 distance out on the face.
Do it.
JimN

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Allan in NE

02-01-2006 05:41:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
Kelly,

I'm with Hobo on this one.

Valve grinders are worse than combines. They set, and they set, and they set some more.

Bite the bullet and use the machine shop when the need arises. You can't buy enough tractors in your lifetime to justify a quality grinder.

Just my opinion, tho.

Allan



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RustyFarmall

02-01-2006 08:55:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Allan in NE, 02-01-2006 05:41:33  
Allan, I sort of agree with you, a valve grinder, like a combine, will just set for long periods of time. But, you did buy a combine didn't you? And just like a valve grinder, so long as you don't get too much money tied up in it, you can afford for it to just set, and when you need it, there it is, ready to do the job for you.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ron in Nebr

02-01-2006 15:26:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-01-2006 08:55:53  
Yup, my valve grinding equipment sits there alot too. But I got a real good deal on some good equipment, and I'm about 125 miles one way from the closest machine shop, so, just like alot of the other "specialty tools" I've picked up over the years, I'm glad I have that valve grinding equipment. It gets used three or four times a year.

Actually, since all the repair shops in my hometown are in the same boat I'm in and have to send all their machine work quite a ways away to get done, I've kicked around the idea of acquiring alot more machine shop equipment and starting up a little sideline business for myself.

I've always thought it was funny, Allan, that when I lived in Chadron there were two maybe three machine shops, and at least two salvage yards, all of which did good business. Here in Valentine, with right at half of Chadron's population(but drawing from a large area) there were and are zero machine shops or salvage yards. Kinda looked to me like a business opportunity if a guy could find time to sneak away from the cows now and then...

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hobo,NC

02-01-2006 05:19:24




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
You need to find another machine shop. Unless you plan to git into machine shop service a valve grinder will not be a good investment. A not so good set up izz no better than none at all. It will werk ya to death try’in to straiten out what it machined incorrect. BD grinder has never been know to have enny longtivity or I have never seen one hold up.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
RustyFarmall

01-31-2006 21:24:07




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:16:17  
Kelly, I have an old Black and Decker valve grinder I would sell, it ain't perfect, but it works. I will also tell you that most of the valves I remove from the head are beyond grinding, and need to be replaced.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Kelly C

01-31-2006 21:34:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to RustyFarmall, 01-31-2006 21:24:07  
Send me a email with what you have and what you want. Every little bit I can do my self saves money for another project. Any ideas for reading so I can update my knowledge base?
kelly@genesiswireless.us



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry Condon

02-01-2006 05:47:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Valve grinding in reply to Kelly C, 01-31-2006 21:34:55  
If the valve needs grinding, will the valve seat also need grinding? Possible the valve guide need replacement? And if the valve stem is worn the whole valve need to be replaced. I'm interested in how this project comes out for you.

Larry



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy