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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Straight Pipe

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Dellbertt

01-29-2006 13:08:40




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Seeing a photo of a IH350U with a straight pipe-no muffler- reminded me of something I have always wondered about.

I have always heard that running a straight pipe – no muffler- is not good practice because there has to be some backpressure in the exhaust system or you will burn valves, pistons, bearings and whatever. That has never made sense to me and I do not see any reason it should be true. Other than being noisy I don’t see the problem with running a straight pipe.

Without considering noise or air pollution and keeping the conversation to an M, H or IH300/350 or similar, does anyone know for a FACT that it hurts a gas engine to always run without a muffler.

Diesel any different?

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hassan fortney

01-29-2006 18:17:36




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
with the respect to all on this post. the question here is can a strait pipe effect exhaust valves on a farmall A to super M I don't feel there will be any adverse effect on these engines for they if properly tuned won't ever get hot enough under normal everyday chores or the occsional lawn mowing. but last year my brother put his strait M on the blower to fill a 25 foot silo with corn when we gave her the onion she made the muffler glow we had a good nelson muffler on it with baffles. took the muffler off of it then she ran cooler. on the exhaust. acutual cooling temp didn't vary

there are alot of factors top race engine builders have to concider when building an engine and to acheve the magical hp rating they look at stoikial metric effencie I think thats how it's spelled, any ways this factors in valve over lap and exhaust scavaging and so on now a engine that has the exhaust and the intake in the same casting like on the farmalls and most industrial engines and the runners are not equal length. so I guess what I am saying is if a strait pipe works for you and you are alredy def go for it if not then don't my experince has been the old stanly mufflers not as god for sound as a good nelson muffler industy muffler also they are made just down the street from me!!!

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the tractor vet

01-29-2006 15:35:24




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
Now you guys are going to tell that i don't know what i am talken about but one day while playen with the dyno we did that we pulled the stright thru muffler off my S/MTA and ran it on the dyno just for shutts and giggels and it turned out just a wisker over 56 ponys then put the muffler back on and got 59 ponys so the littel added back pressure did help and that nice stainless 2 inch stright pipe is now down in the basement up in the floor joist.

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CLIFF S

01-29-2006 17:35:02




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to the tractor vet, 01-29-2006 15:35:24  
I agree with the tractor vet, My SMTA done the same as his and it too lost 3 HP when i took the muffler off and i hear the H-350 tractors do the same! BUT there was no differance in HP with my Super C and A with or without a muffler!



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billde

01-29-2006 17:20:10




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to the tractor vet, 01-29-2006 15:35:24  
Wonder what the results would have been if you would have tested with a straight pipe equal in length to the muffler? Not trying to advocate running straight pipes, just curious since the mufflers often do not have a baffle would the length give you the necessary back pressure?



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the tractor vet

01-29-2006 19:17:15




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to billde, 01-29-2006 17:20:10  
well it was the same length as it was on my old 450 and for it to fit in the shead it could not be any taller the a stock muffler . i ran that pipe when i use to pull the 450D and thought that it was nat jsut wonder what the old 450 would have done with a muffler three more horse just might have been enough to beat that 1206 that got me in the 12500 that pull back in 70 he got me by a foot.



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Jonathan Mirgon

01-29-2006 15:15:05




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
No true facts here either, But just an opinion. I think in most cases you will only see a straight pipe ( usually chrome) on a restored show tractor. Who runs a straight pipe on a working tractor ? For the amount of run time a nicely restored farmall gets , I cant see any harm in running the straight exhaust.



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Andy Martin

01-29-2006 18:44:12




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Jonathan Mirgon, 01-29-2006 15:15:05  
I ran a straight pipe on my WF M because I was too cheap to buy a muffler.

Mowing hay around a big sycamore tree, one of the branches caught it and broke the manifold.

So I always run a muffler to save a manifold. I know the manifold was rotten but ti would sure have lasted longer with a muffler to bend instead of a piece of pipe.



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Andy Martin

01-29-2006 14:29:20




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
There is some advantage to having enough pipe so that momentum of the exhaust gas out of the pipe form one cylinder helps "suck" the exhaust out of the next cylinder.

A tuned exhaust does make an engine breath better, just as too long or too short makes it more difficult.

Beside burning valves, in engine run without an exhaust pipe each cylinder has to start the gas moving against still air, where if the pulse from the cylinder before it was moving out the exhaust pipe, it helps pull the exhaust from teh new cylinder.

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Randy-IA

01-29-2006 14:17:51




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
No fact's here but I read an articale once that dismissed that as a old wives tale to a point . There does need to be some length of exhuast pipe but I don't remember if it was for the reason's you mentioned or not . Just think about those high dollar race engines at a straight track , they aren't going to trash a set of $30,000 heads and they run staight pipes with exotic fuel . I've run my Harley for 20 years ( 84 FXST ) with 21" gooseneck style straight pipes with no adverse effects except some hearing loss in my right ear . Still have the same pipes on it though I don't ride it anymore - no time . I've had those pipes glowing bright red on some long high speed runs with misadjusted timing ( I took the e-box out about 2 days after I bought the bike new and put in points ). Needless to say there isn't much chrome left on them these day's ...Randy

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Nat 2

01-30-2006 05:43:00




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Randy-IA, 01-29-2006 14:17:51  
BTW, they completely rebuild those "high dollar race engines" between each run, if you're talking Top Fuel and Funny Car.



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Greg_KY

01-29-2006 13:28:58




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Dellbertt, 01-29-2006 13:08:40  
As long as you have a sufficient length of pipe to prevent cold air entering during cam overlap (the time when both intake and exhaust valves are slightly open) you will not have a problem providing you have ear protection LOL



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Janicholson

01-29-2006 14:26:35




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 Re: Straight Pipe in reply to Greg_KY, 01-29-2006 13:28:58  
In addition to what Greg has said, I would add that the introduction of cold air into the exhaust valve ports when the engine is shut off, and the extremely hot valves get unevenly cooled in the stem and head, can warp them.

Headers on an engine (assuming they are designed using computational fluid dynamics and are real competition components) use exhaust scavenging to time the pressure and partial vacuum acoustics of the pipe/s so that at particular engine RPM the partial vacuum is pulling the last exhaust out of the cylinder (during overlap) and creating an easier entry of charge. Unless the engine/cam is pretty far toward the racing end of the spectrum, there will be mild effects of this pulse related advantage. Big huge large diameter pipes and headers are only used on machines that can produce enough flow to create high velocity in the big pipes. Low speed engines with modest cylinder displacement, shrouded valve placement, and small valve area will be little affected.
JimN

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