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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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M Farmall Rear End stuck

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Jndrgreen

01-13-2006 07:52:38




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I just bought my first International.

It is a 1950 M. When we went to load it, the differential is stuck. One wheel will turn, the other won't (left stuck, right free (sitting on tractor)). The previous owner says its hung up in two gears. He also mentioned spider gears in the same sentence. I have never had a situation like this, and I have not opened the transmission case yet.

Can anyone tell me if this situation sounds like being hung up in two gears? Or something else. Seems to me if the pinion won't turn on the ring that both wheels would lock?

As the name implies, I have more experience with green tractors than red ones. But I sure think these red ones are pretty.

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Andy Martin

01-13-2006 10:04:08




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
Just like a car, if the transmission is locked the differntial ring gear will not turn so if one wheel turns, the other will turn the opposite direction.

Sounds like a stuck brake, ice, or internal damage.



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captaink

01-13-2006 08:51:38




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
Sounds to me like a brake is hanging up or water (doesn’t take much) frozen in the rear end on one side. Was the tractor setting level? If not, was the side that the wheel turns the high side? If so it might be water in the rear end that has frozen and preventing the bull gear from turning. If it warms up, loosen the drain plug below the PTO until it is loose enough for water to drip out but not the gear oil. This will temporarily fix this problem.

If the tractor was setting level, then I suspect that a brake has hung up on the side that won’t turn.

The reasoning is based on the following which is assuming the engine is not running and the clutch is engaged. One wheel turning and the other doesn’t means the pinion shaft AND differential spider gears have to be turning. (The differential spider gears must be working for one wheel to turn and the other stand still and since the differential housing must turn when one wheel turns and the other stands still, that means the pinion shaft is turning and the transmission has to be in neutral or the clutch disengaged.)

If the spider gears are locking, both wheels would have to rotate the same direction at the same speed. (Their function is to allow the wheels to rotate at different speeds.)

If the transmission is stuck in a gear, and the differential is working, the wheels will turn opposite directions, since the pinion shaft and differential can’t turn, the spider gears must or neither wheel will turn.

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jndrgreen

01-13-2006 10:13:38




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to captaink, 01-13-2006 08:51:38  
The left brake, (side which won't turn) "feels" like it might be engaged or stuck. The left brake will hardly depress, while the right brake depresses much further.

I hope it is the brakes. I plan to begin working on the tractor this weekend.

Thanks for your input.



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captaink

01-13-2006 11:22:53




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 10:13:38  
If you have the factory brakes (not the disc brakes) the M has a shaft that goes through the brake cover on the top front of the cover. On the one that the wheel won’t turn, check how much (if any) this shaft rotates when the corresponding brake pedal is pushed in. If this shaft doesn’t turn, but the spring takes up the movement, then the shaft is probably rusted tight in the cover preventing the brake from releasing. You could try putting oil on it and tapping it with a hammer in the opposite direction the pedal would move it to try to free up the brake.

Good Luck!

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old

01-13-2006 08:35:39




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
If you had said one wheel turned one way and the other turned the other way I would say its tranny, but in your case you have a brake locked up like the other guys says and or bearings bad in that side of the rear end.



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Josh H

01-13-2006 08:32:44




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
I'd check the brakes first. After you are sure thats not the problem, check to see if it is stuck in two gears. If you remove the belt pulley housing you can reach back into the transmission and move the gears by hand. Feel your way around and put them all in neutral and then try again. You can also remove the shifter by punching out the pin that retains it, and looking down into the hole the rails should be lined up together when the transmission is in neutral. I'd be kinda gentle when you are trying to see if you got it unstuck. If this doesn't work, try picking up an I&T shop manual, removing the rear cover, and digging in.
Josh

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IaGary

01-13-2006 08:30:21




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
Sprout has good idea. But if were stuck in two gears I believe the only way one wheel would turn is if the other turned backwards. I'd check the brakes or something else in rear end not transmission.



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Josh H

01-13-2006 08:39:16




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to IaGary, 01-13-2006 08:30:21  
Gary is right. If the transmission is locked up, the only way for one wheel to turn is for the other wheel to turn the opposite direction.



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Cliff schnitzler

01-13-2006 08:29:24




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
my 300 has the same problem, wait for spring, it seems to go away during warm whether. I run it all summer long then when it's time to get fire wood in she locks up like that.



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Nat 2

01-13-2006 08:40:13




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Cliff schnitzler, 01-13-2006 08:29:24  
Jeez... Your tractor's rear end is full of water, dude!!!! Change the oil and it won't lock up on you anymore.



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Cliff schnitzler

01-13-2006 09:03:33




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Nat 2, 01-13-2006 08:40:13  
already did it's not that



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alfred

01-13-2006 19:38:13




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Cliff schnitzler, 01-13-2006 09:03:33  
Take the shifter out and see if the end is broke off or worn. Might be in 2 gears. A big flat-head screwdriver or a tire iron will help get them back. If that is it have the welder put a 1/4" on and try it. just grind a little off if it is to tight.



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IaGary

01-13-2006 08:33:57




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Cliff schnitzler, 01-13-2006 08:29:24  
Cliff if both wheels are locked on the 300 you must have water in the rearend and it freezes.

Pull your plug the water will come out first if there is any water in it. You need to get the water out if its in there.



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cliff schnitzler

01-13-2006 09:05:01




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to IaGary, 01-13-2006 08:33:57  
only one wheel.



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captaink

01-13-2006 11:28:59




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to cliff schnitzler, 01-13-2006 09:05:01  
Have you had the brake cover off the side that is locking up? It almost sounds like moisture or transmission fluid is getting in there and causing your problem.



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SproutW

01-13-2006 07:57:25




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 Re: M Farmall Rear End stuck in reply to Jndrgreen, 01-13-2006 07:52:38  
Just a thought but I would check your brakes first. Take the cover off and be sure the brakes are not frozen. My M currently has this problem.



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