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help with 12 volt conversion

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j smith

01-02-2005 14:35:36

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OK I have seen a lot of posts on this. I spent the day today converting to 12 volts. I followed the directions and diagrams on this site. Amazingly when I was finished it started. I did add a voltmeter as some suggested(cheap radioshack car type 15 volts). I put it just after the lamp on the wire from the alternator #1. The lamp does not light and the voltmeter goes negative when I turn the key and stays there after I have started the tractor. I had reversed the ammeter leads from the original 6 volt settings and my coil is wired right. It runs fine and I am not sure if it is charging. Do I reverse the voltmeter hook up. I ran the wire from the alt to the lamp to the positive side and then from the negative to the ignition. The lamp holder is hard to work with as is the voltmeter the posts are microscopic, any advise on those. Also voltmeter came with small resistor which is placed between lamp and positive terminal. I know I am close. I haven"t hooked up lights yet???

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Jeff smith

01-05-2005 10:58:44

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to j smith, 01-02-2005 14:35:36

The generator and volt reg were removed to a shelf in the garage long ago. I will try the resistor in place of the light and see how it works. My main problem is reaching under the dash to get at everything. Taking out the battery is easy but getting a look at what you are doing is hard. I will work on it this weekend weather permitting. I used it last week to plow 13 inches of snow, so I am happy with it.
I live in Southern Mass

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Bob M

01-02-2005 15:05:25

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to j smith, 01-02-2005 14:35:36

From your description it sounds like you've got the voltmeter wired up wrong. The voltmeter should have it's + terminal connected to the switched side of the ignition switch and the - terminal connected to a good ground.

Suggestion: Get rid of the Radio Shack voltmeter and buy an automotive duty voltmeter at NAPA, AutoZone or wherever. It'll have more substantial terminals and will hold up better than will the RS meter!

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Jeff Smith

01-02-2005 17:20:39

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to Bob M, 01-02-2005 15:05:25

thank you for your reply

OK so I run an independent wire from the ignition to the voltmeter and then ground the other side.

What about my lamp bulb issue?? It does not go on so I am not sure I am charging or if it will prevent the battery from discharging

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Bob M

01-02-2005 15:04:34

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to j smith, 01-02-2005 14:35:36

From your description it sounds like you've got the voltmeter wired up wrong. The voltmeter should have tit's + terminal connected to the switched side of the ignition switch and the - terminal connected to a good ground.

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Jeff Smith

01-03-2005 04:29:11

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to Bob M, 01-02-2005 15:04:34

I will replace it today, I'll run an independent wire from the switched ignition and round it. Hopefully that will help my lamp to light.

Thank you again for your help, this must not be so easy since I see a lot of posts about tractor electrical

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jeff smith

01-03-2005 16:02:00

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to Jeff Smith, 01-03-2005 04:29:11

OK another day and no luck. Put new voltmeter in on a separate line grounded to a steel plate. The lamp lights when the key is o0n but no charge. Tractor would not start so I thought the battery was dead, jumped it and it ran well. So switched the ammeter wires which is no easy task and tracter starts on a dime, but no reading on the voltmeter. The alternator was not charging. An independent handheld voltmeter shows only 12 volts on the system. So unhooked the alt and brought it to be tested. Tested just fine, man in auto store says pin 1 or 2 must be grounded, instead on run back to bat term on alt. So grounded it and still starts but does not charge. Also lights not working but testing as if there is power in the lines. Very confused because I followed all the directions in the diagram referred to on this site. Before I started the key was wired to the battery, I moved that wire(which has a in-line fuse for some reason) to the ammeter as directed along with the line from the starter. The coil, the voltmeter and the wire from the alt)small pin 1 are tied together with a wire nut and are attached to the keyed side of the ignition. THe lights I did not change, the are wired from the switch to the ignition and thru a fuse. This varies from the schematic but it is hard to reach these wires. Any suggestions. This is much harder than wiring a house. I appreciate any help. I hope someone reads 3 pages back

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farmallhal

01-03-2005 18:50:17

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to jeff smith, 01-03-2005 16:02:00

Jeff, I converted my 1951 H over to 12 volt a couple of months ago using a Hitachi 14231 alternator which is a little smaller then a Delco 10SI. I haven't seen in your posts what alternator you used and it probably doesn't make any difference. With the Hitachi #1 is the L terminal and #2 is the S terminal. I used Bob Melville's wiring diagrams on this site which you are probably using as well. I didn't use the light you are discussing in your posts but placed a 10 ohm - 10 watt resistor from Radio Shack (about $4 for a twin pack) in the light location in the circuit. I believe the light and/or the resistor is to excite the alternator to turn on and produce current. One thing that is different with an alternator on these tractors is the engine speed isn't like an auto engine which runs at a higher RPM. You need a small pulley on your alternator to increase its RPM's from the slower turning Farmall engine. Mine with the 10 watt resistor in the circuit in place of the light turns on at a normal idle starting speed. Also, did you notice the short pigtail wire from the 2 terminal to the BAT terminal? I guess that has to be in place as well. Have you installed a ballast resistor to reduce the current to the points to 6 volts? I used a RU12 as a ballast resistor as it passed closer to 6 volts to the coil and point then the one noted in Bob's article. Other then what I've noted above I don't see what could be wrong if it is wired per Bob's diagram as my H worked perfect from the start. It might be best to stand back a minute and just follow one wire at a time and make sure it is correct. I've unlocked my email if that works better for you. Good luck and you will like it once you get past these start up problems. Hal

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jeff smith

01-04-2005 07:08:58

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to farmallhal, 01-03-2005 18:50:17

I am using the delco, I had the wire from the 1 or 2 to the bat term on the alt, I had the wire from the other pin thru the lamp to the ignition.

Now the only way my tractor differs from the diagram is that I have an ignition key with an acc/off/on positions. I can not really tell which wires are hooked up to which on the inside. The wire that ran from somewhere on the ignition to the coil (via a ballast resistor) is the one I tied into for the small wire from the alternator. I followed the diagram I thought. I also have the lights still wired from the ignition key. I didn't want to change them if I did not have to. It still starts fine but not charging. The alternater was just hooked right to the battery with only one wire the pins were empty, that was not working so that is why I changed. This is very frustrating. I also get no lights but they test as hot. My battery has some weak cells and needs replacing but it runs the tractor for a good 90 minutes so I have not replaced it yet, but it takes a charge from the plug-in charger so I did not think that was an issue. As far as the lamp, it goes on when I turn the key so I thought that was right, but I can always change that to the resistor. Also I put in the voltmeter tied into that same line near the ignition, all with a wire nut, but it does not show any voltage. Should I take that out??

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farmallhal

01-04-2005 11:14:39

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to jeff smith, 01-04-2005 07:08:58

Jeff, First clarify what you are making this conversion on. You talk about a key switch, solinoid and a voltmeter all of which weren't normally installed on a letter series Farmall.
The ballast resistor needs to be in the hot circuit from the on-off or key switch which runs directly to the coil providing battery current through the coil to the points. Its function is to reduce the battery current from 12 volts to 6 volts for the balance of the ignition system. Sounds like you might have it in the wrong wire. The wiring diagram I used doesn't show the ballast resistor in anything connected to the alternator. My tractor only has an ammeter and no voltmeter and I don't know where it would be wired into the system but would think in one of the circuits coming out of the alternator. You mention you have a couple of wires that are hard to get to but you are going to have to know where they run in order to get this correct. I'm also assumming you have changed your ground from a positive to negative by now? The key switch and solinoid shouldn't really play much of a problem but a battery cable from the battery + terminal should run to the solinoid and continue on to the starter. You should also have a battery cable from the battery - terminal running to a good ground on the tractor. You should have a wire running from the battery + terminal or where the battery cable attaches to the the solinoid to the ammeter and on to the key switch so when the switch is in the start or run position you have 12 volt current to the coil through the ballast resistor. I was able to use my existing wire harness which was on the tractor with the 6 volt generator system by just a little rerouting and splicing some extra lengths in a couple of places. I would suggest you get a new or another battery off of one of your other vehicles until you get this straightened out. Sounds like your battery is not that good and is most likely not the culprit but elminating all possible problems makes this an easier task. I think I would also remove the voltmeter as well for now and add it back in later if you feel you need it. I would also suggest you get the light out of the circuit and replace it with one of those 10 ohm - 10 watt resistors from Radio Shack I mentioned in my earlier post. If you want a light put it back in once you get this thing working as the light might not be providing enough draw to start the alternator to charge. Put as small a pulley as you can find on the alternator so it spins up quicker. You might have been there already with the correct wiring but if your alternator won't start charging you would never know. I would suggest you get this as simple to the original as you can until you have it working correctly and then start adding stuff (light and voltmeter) back in if you feel you want or need them.

Bob Melville who has provided you a couple of posts on this problem was a tremendous help to me along with another person in New York. It sounds like you might be trying to do some stuff which isn't in his wire diagrams which could really confuse the conversion. I'll try and help you as much as I can on this and will keep checking my mail for responses from you but we may have to get Bob involved if this can't get straightened out. One thing about this group of guys on the forum they are all willing to provide whatever assistance they can. Hang in there and it will come home shortly. Hal

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Jeff Smith

01-04-2005 12:11:08

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to farmallhal, 01-04-2005 11:14:39

OK I don't know a lot about tractors and I have confused everyone including myself, let me try to clarify.
I followed the diagram I found on this site. I have a Farmall 200 series. Perhaps this is the problem, It seems that others have posted that it works on most farmalls. I have followed the exact diagram. If you note in the diagram the wire from the number 1 pin on the alt is wired to the on side of the ignition, as is the wire to the coil(with the ballast resistor on it).

The ignition is hard to reach, the tractor was partially converted when I got it. There is a short wire from the ignition that was wired with a wire nut to the ignition coil wire, so I tied in the wire from the number 2 pin right to that wire nut since they go to the same place. I also ran another wire from here to the voltmeter, which I put into see if it was charging. The light was what was recommended in the article so that is what I did. It does go on when the key is on. The automotive guy who tested the alt said to ground the #2 pin and not do it as the diagram. I tried that an no changes. I can take out the voltmeter easily.

The ignition stopped side was hooked directly to the battery but I moved that to the ammeter as per the diagram. With the exception of the lights I really have the wiring just like the diagram. I have run new wires from the alternator, otherwise used existing wires.

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farmallhal

01-04-2005 13:16:41

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to Jeff Smith, 01-04-2005 12:11:08

Jeff, Read what you wrote in the last post real clearly. If what you said in your last post is true I see that you have the wire from the 1 pin wired to the hot wire to the coil along with the wire from the 2 pin using a common wire nut. Is that what you really have? According to the wire diagram I used the wire from the 2 pin goes to the BAT terminal on the back of the alternator which runs to the the ammeter before the ignition switch. According to an email exchange I had with Bob Melville he stated the S pin on my Hitachi was the same as the 2 pin on the Delco 10SI and the S he believed stood for "sense" which was the function of the 2 pin. If you really have that 2 pin wired to ground or to the wire nut the alternator is probably not sensing a current draw and won't turn on. Do you have the wire (should be a 10 or 12 gauge wire) running from the alternator BAT terminal to the ammeter as shown in the diagram with it continueing on to the ignition switch? I would do it exactly like Bob's diagram except I still like the 10 ohm - 10 watt resistor in place of the light which Bob said was fine. Have you also changed the wires on the coil to run the hot wire from the ballast resistor to the coil + terminal and the coil - terminal to the distributor? The wire diagram I used was in an article writtem by Bob and titled "Step by Step 12-Volt Conversion" which uses a wire diagram for a Super M. This article is on this website at:Link

Also>Link in the fine print the warning light is to be rated at 200ma @ 12 volts. I couldn't fine a holder for a bulb mentioned in his article as what I was finding in available bulbs were like 20 - 30 ma @ 12 volts more like LED's or 10% of the current needed per his article. Hope this helps. Hal

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jeff smith

01-04-2005 16:25:34

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to farmallhal, 01-04-2005 13:16:41

I had the #2 pin back to the battery terminal just like the diagram. The #1 runs to the ignition. The hot wire is to the + on the coil and (-) to the dist. Could my ammeter be bad? The glass is cracked a little.

I really did follow the diagram you speak of and it was not charging. I can switch out the light for the resistor. An article I read said the light would go out when it was charging so I liked that idea, I certainly can switch that out.

I get the pins mixed up when talking about them but I had the diagram outside with me and double checked everything. I think I am going to have to pull out the ignition and wire it again or replace it. Is there a way to test the ammeter and find out if it is working. I would think it was since the tractor starts

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Brad A

01-09-2005 07:37:00

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to jeff smith, 01-04-2005 16:25:34

Jeff,
E-mail me your phone number and I'll explain how I fixed the same problem ( I Think ) that you are having

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farmallhal

01-05-2005 19:04:14

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to jeff smith, 01-04-2005 16:25:34

Have you have any success on this or still bogged down on what to do? Hoping for the best and good luck. Hal

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farmallhal

01-04-2005 18:19:19

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to jeff smith, 01-04-2005 16:25:34

Jeff, I don't know how to advise you from here if you have it wired per Bob's diagram. As far as testing the ammeter I think you could attach a light (a fan motor or a cigarette lighter would be better) or any 12 volt item which will draw current to one side and a feed from the battery to the other side and see what kind of deflection you get in the pointer when powering up the 12 volt item. You will also have to ground whatever you are trying to power up to the same ground plane to which the battery is grounded or directly to negative post on the battery. You can do this on or off the tractor as long as you can connect the ammeter in the circuit. I would think you should unhook the other leads to the ammeter when doing this test as you just want to see if current is being measured through the ammeter. This electrical trouble shooting is not my speciality in great detail but I do have somewhat of a working knowledge and have been able to survive. I would also put in that 10 ohm - 10 watt resistor I keep talking about as that should be enough draw to excite or start your alternator into a charging mode. I was told the resistor needed to be soldered to the wires for the best connection. Was very easy to do and then go back and install a light along with the resistor once you get this all straightened out if you like the light. Those resistors are really very cheap at Radio Shack. I have only done this conversion once and then with the Hitachi 14231 alternator. I take it you are using one of those older 10SI Delcos and not something which might have an internal diode which would cause problems with what you are trying to do? You should have had a voltage regulator in conjunction with the generator and that should be totaly disconnected out of the conversion as the alternator should have an internal regulator. Send me an email to russell@wavecomputers.net
if you feel you need Bob's email address to get this completed. We all want you to succeed in this endeavor and will help in any way we can. By the way where are you locatedin this great conuntry? Good luck and hang in there and let us know how this progresses, Hal

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Jeff in Mass

01-09-2005 15:59:01

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to farmallhal, 01-04-2005 18:19:19

Ok here is the latest, I have discovered that the light switch was bad and have replaced it. I have now discovered that the key switch is bad and that is going to be replaced tomorrow. I also discovered it takes all morning to take off a bucket and put on a snow plow.

I think the ammeter may be bad because the glass is cracked, so if when I change the key (It was a universal key like in a car) I expect things may work, if not I will take out the ammeter which may be broken and put the voltmeter there. I will move the alt charging wire to the starter and the other wires to the on side of the key, but I hope all this will not be nec. I will let everyone know tomorrow

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Jeff in mass

01-12-2005 08:47:21

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Re: help with 12 volt conversion in reply to Jeff in Mass, 01-09-2005 15:59:01

success see post from yesterday page 1

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