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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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I need a foolproof head seal on H

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Red Dread

09-04-2004 12:08:53




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What is the best way to seal a head gasket the first time. I installed new rings and had a valve job and cracks repaired in the head, done on my H. I got it running and let the motor warm up.It kept dieing on me which I thought might be a carb problem. When I removed the valve cover to re-torque the head and check valve settings I noticed water coming from the middle head bolt. I removed the head and there was water on top of the block. When I installed the head I used 2 coats of copper gasket sealer and working from the center out I torqued it to 30lbs then 50lbs and finally 70lbs. I also degreased the top of the block with brake cleaner before installing the head. Should I remove all of the head bolts and sand the top of the block or what? Head gaskets are expensive.

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tompepper

09-05-2004 05:15:12




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
Man the new school sure is different from the old school.if thats a double steel sandwich gasket.soak it over nite in a barrel of water.pull it out and put it right on the engine torque it down and forget it.the swelling of the gasket after the soa will then conform to any slite inperfections in the block and head and make a good seal.



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lee

09-04-2004 16:54:22




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
man you boys sure do build different than I do. Remind me not to have you boys build any motors for me, OK. No wonder you all need sealers and cement, stuffing those used gaskets back in there. No sir, not for me, even though I used to do it on lawn mower engines back when I was just a youngster. Opinions vary, as the lady folk on first dates tend to vary.



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Red Dread

09-04-2004 18:53:53




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to lee, 09-04-2004 16:54:22  
Lee, I thing I have to point out is this is a working tractor and has no collector value due to a missing serial number plate. It also has an aftermarket wide front and three point hitch and was just trying to get some ideas on getting it back out in the field in the shortest time,it has already been down 1 week. If it were all original and I was a collector restoring for a show tractor I could see tearing it all down and miking all the surfaces, but i don't have time or money for this tractor. Thanks for your input though.

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CNKS

09-05-2004 09:34:51




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 18:53:53  
What you don't want to take the time to do is actually MORE important on a working tractor. If the surfaces are indeed not flat, it will break down again. Has nothing to do with a restoration -- just doing it right the first time.



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lee

09-04-2004 19:22:05




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 18:53:53  
Checking the head and deck surfaces with a straight edge is far from a complete teardown, you are removing the head to reseal it. You can check the head on the bench and the deck on the tractor. Use a 16 inch steel rule from a carpenters square at minimum to at least see if you detect anything warped grossly out of the ordinary. If either surface is warped severely you won't seal it for long or maybe not at all. Also look for pitting due to corrosion as others have mentioned. Also use thread sealant on any studs or head bolts that enter the water jacket.
I'm just hoping to insure you don't have to take it down a third time. As always, good luck with it.

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Nebraska Cowman

09-04-2004 16:43:05




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
I just slather on a little Indian Head gasket shellac and have never retorqued a head in my life. Go figure?



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Dale L

09-04-2004 15:35:11




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
I was just about to put the head on my H when my brother-in-law noticed pittiing on the block where the head water ports match the block. After looking at the old gaasket you could see where the gasket was leaking.[That is probably why the no. 3 cylinder was froze up]I just got the block back from the machine shop they had to take of .040. The head gasket is .100 thick it only leaves me with .060 clearance. Now I notice the studs are not the same length,Five are longer than the rest. But that's a subject for another posting. that might be the problem. Good luck

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MagMan

09-04-2004 14:30:11




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
I use spray Tac from Napa Just a light coat on head and block none on gasket Its a red spray adhesive made by permatec I think. AS far as torq goes I would do 25,35,45,60 then 67 Not that you did anything wrong it only takes a few extra minutes. The 50 to 70 you did has alot of torq in between.Also did you have a old style gasket or new some some of the dealers try to give the one that have the steel on one side and cardboard or what ever it is on the other. I also go with the double steel no retorque like they have on cars. Just My Thoughts JON

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Red Dread

09-04-2004 14:42:32




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to MagMan, 09-04-2004 14:30:11  
Thanks for your input MagMan!! I used a victor - reitz head gasket which is a double metal sandwiched head gasket. Can I clean off the old sealer and re-use the gasket with your recommendations or do I have to order another head gasket kit? AAARRRGGGG!!



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ChadS

09-04-2004 16:16:19




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 14:42:32  
No, as long as the gasket is not torn up. Permatex Coppercoat is perfect for sealing gaskets on these, make sure it is clean, no grease or oil on the surfaces. Spray all the surfaces, on the block, both sides of the gasket, and the head. assemble, warm up the engine, and retorque the head if nessisiary. ChadS



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MagMan

09-04-2004 16:41:10




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to ChadS, 09-04-2004 16:16:19  
I agree with chad If its not torn up reuse it are you sure it was not leaking from the work the shop did? Also remember there is a mis conseption out there about retorqueing. You back the nut off then retorque Dont try to torque it from the 65 to 70 you had first. You are likely to snap a head bolt off that way. What I was saying before is a mechanic that ran a parts plus told me that if the gasket is steel on steel or what ever its made of its just like a new car you dont pull the valve covers off a new vehicle to retorque them do you. I have never retorqued one since.There is nothing wrong with doing it its just a pain to remove the valve train and re adjust the tappets. There are some out there that say sealer and retorque required I would do it then for waranty reasons. GOOD LUCK JON

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lee

09-04-2004 12:36:14




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 Re: I need a foolproof head seal on H in reply to Red Dread, 09-04-2004 12:08:53  
the head must be flat, did you have it milled flat or checked for flat? The deck surface must be flat. Remove all the bolts (studs?) and check it for flat with a good long straight edge. Straight edge should pe perfectly straight and probably at least 20 inches long, longer better.
You should see no light under that straight edge anywhere on the deck. Check it lengthwise, across the width and diagonally. If you see light check it with a feeler gage to determine width of gap. I don't know the spec or what you are working on but I'd look for no more than .002 max. Studs or head bolts that tap into a water jacket should be sealed with a good engine assembly grade thread seal compound. Two coats copper I would not do. I usually get everything pristine clean, no oil, final clean with solvent. Wipe with white cloth should come up clean. No sealant, just assemble dry. If you think you need a sealant go very thin coat only. These are my thoughts. As opinions vary, your crop yield may also vary.

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