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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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460 Hydraulics Revisited.

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Joe Evans

03-20-2004 21:32:07




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Looking for the cause of a continual hi-pressure condition in the 460 hydraulic system, we removed and disassembled the control/pressure regulator block (is that the correct term?) per the suggestions from previous posts.

We found much grunge inside the control block--no surprise there. We also found a very dirty and totally collapsed orifice plug screen.

My brother and I attempted to scope out how the circuity and control system works. From our study we concluded that the screen collapsed, or more accurately, was squeezed shut due to high pressure on the screen side of the orifice. This pressure had no where to go as the screen was clogged. We also concluded that the orifice plug should allow a high pressure condition to pass thru to the top side of the regulator valve which unloads the system's over pressure condition thru a spring loaded ball.

We figured that the screen collapse occurred two days ago because of the new pump we installed. The screen has probably been clogged since Hector was a pup, but the old pump was so bad it was incapable of generating an over-pressure condition.

Obviously, the control block needs rebuilt, but we were curious if we were on the right track in figuring out how this bugger works.

Calling all hydraulic meisters!

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Vern MN

03-22-2004 09:25:31




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 Re: 460 Hydraulics Revisited. in reply to Joe Evans, 03-20-2004 21:32:07  
Joe, can't help on the pressure problem, but on my 460 Teladepth the little gears went out, so I replaced with a spool same as remotes and did away with the linkage. I do not use it for draft control equipment and now I raise and lower the hitch using the control like the ones on remotes. Works fine,



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Aces

03-21-2004 09:32:52




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 Re: 460 Hydraulics Revisited. in reply to Joe Evans, 03-20-2004 21:32:07  
Joe I don't think the screen has much to do with the problem you are haveing, the screen was on there to keep the orifice cleen most tractors would have had the sreen remove 30 years ago. That piston and seat is what is known as an unload valve and an unload valve if it fails, will most likly fail to unload the system. What that orifice is for is to bleed off the oil behind the piston so it can move to load or unload the system. It the orifice is pluged the piston can not move so the system stays on hi pressure. The very first 460 560's had a little ball in the orifice for what reason I don't know but the ball should have been taken out many years ago. As I said before if the oring on that piston is bad if the piston is warn bad if the seat is bad if the bore for the piston is bad if the seat is loose you have aproblem. I have not seen one of these in over 30 years but knowing how bad they could be then I would think that today that piston could almost trun around in there. The relief valve in that same housing should not cause this hi pressure. Having said that the unload valve is not the only thing that can cause hi pressure. The fast hitch valve can, the linkage from the fast hitch back to the valve must be free but not loose the little gears inside the fast hitch valve must be good, free but loose and (must be in time)If they are not in time you can work on thr rest until you are blue in the face and it will never work. They can be timed without taking everthing apart but that takes know how which I have done many times, I could not tell you how 30 years ago. And the last thing are you sure that you do not have on remote valve or both for mater turned bast the single or double position a little because this will cause hi pressure.

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Joe Evans

03-22-2004 03:21:57




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 Re: Re: 460 Hydraulics Revisited. in reply to Aces, 03-21-2004 09:32:52  
Aces: The very first thing we looked for was the positioning of the the remote spool valves. The roll pins and keeper clips are all there and in good shape. We then went hunting for problems elsewhere.

Spraying WD-40 thru the various ports of the disassembled control block, it looks to us that the unload valve gets its message to unload the system by oil passing from the outside of the orifice screen up thru the orifice and then to the topside of the unload valve. Once the unload valve has done its duty, the orifice size then slows down the rate at which the unload valve returns to it seat. All of these parts seem to have a problem--screen smashed, orifice plugged, an the O-ring on the unload valve is goofy. The unload valve's pistion and bore are good.

Now tell me, where is the little differential gear box for the Tel-e-Depth system supposed to be? The I+T manual indicates the gear box is supposed to be located somewhere in the vicinity of the hitch cylinder and rock shaft. If that's the case, there ain't none on our 460. Is it located within the fast hitch spool valve under the dash? If the gear box is located near the lift cylinder, and on our tractor it is not present, I guess I am not surprised.

The linkage has been buggered by someone. It has been broken and a piece of all-thread rod welded in for linkage adjustment purposes.

Our 460 is a 1959. There is an intact 460 diesel in a nearby bone yard. Think I will blow lunch hour and take a look at that system. Hopefully it has a Tel-e-depth set up.

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Aces

03-22-2004 05:16:26




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 Re: Re: Re: 460 Hydraulics Revisited. in reply to Joe Evans, 03-22-2004 03:21:57  
Joe if thr orifice was pluged that could be the problem or the bad oring so eplace them. the gears I talk about are in the Tel e depth valve the one the linkage goes into from the hitch cylinder. if you have the linkage you have to have the gears.



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