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B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help.

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Phil Anderson

01-19-2004 08:42:18




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Allright, I have taken this about as far as possible for someone who couldn't even spell diesel tractor two years ago...I need help.

This weekend, I was purging the fuel system on my 1961 B275 diesel (B414 Engine) to get rid
of the summer diesel that I had left in it (I know, I'm a bonehead).
It recently hit -45C with the windchill. Anyways, this weekend it was
only about -5, so I figured everything would be less frozen.

Here is my problem: I followed the directions for purging the fuel
system, and I get fuel flowing through the filter to the pump. I
can't get fuel out of the LOWER purge screw on the fuel pump. The
upper purge screw is fine, I get fuel coming out using the manual
pump on the other side of the tractor. When I try to start the
tractor (after having loosened off two of the fuel line connections
to the injectors in order to finish bleeding the system), it catches,
but then seems to die of starvation...

I have checked the air intake, I have defrosted all the fuel lines, I
have drained the fuel tank and refilled it with winter diesel, I have
emptied the contents of the fuel filter and refilled with fresh, I
have taken off every single (almost) line and blown it out. The fact
that I don't get fuel coming out of the lower purge screw seems to
tell me that there may be something wrong with the pump.

Has anyone got any ideas, or run into this problem before?

Phil,
Finch, Ontario

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parts man

01-20-2004 15:39:47




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 Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil Anderson, 01-19-2004 08:42:18  
Phil, the fuel has to go beyond where the bottom air bleed is to get to the top one. If you've got fuel to the top don't sweat the bottom one, it may be waxed over due to cold etc.



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Phil

01-20-2004 17:35:08




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 Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to parts man, 01-20-2004 15:39:47  
Parts man,

Thanks for the help, but that is the problem...I can get fuel out of the top air bleed screw with no problem. If I loosen off the injector unions, air and fuel SHOULD escape when either the engine is turned over OR the manual fuel pump is actioned. My neighbour told me to loosen off two of the injector unions, and that turning the engine over SHOULD force air and fuel out of the injector unions...but I can't even get fuel out of the injector union with the manual pump...The engine will catch (if I use the glow plugs) but then starve after a few seconds of very rough running.
I'm stumped.

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lee

01-20-2004 21:08:18




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 Re: Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil, 01-20-2004 17:35:08  
Not sure you have followed the procedure 100%.
The procedure I wrote comes from the IH operators manual. Have you tried again in warmer weather?
Dumb question, eh? Probably not much warmer there. Not very warm here in NY. Have you done steps 8, 9, 10 as written even though you can't seem to get fuel at 5 and 7. Try 1 thru 4, 6, 8, 9, 10 exactly as written. The manual pump is not used after step 7. I'm not sure you can pump fuel thru the injector pump manually. Any time I ever did this I cranked the engine after venting the injector pump.

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jdemaris

01-20-2004 05:23:32




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 Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil Anderson, 01-19-2004 08:42:18  
I'm not sure why you worry about removing the summer diesel from the tractor. I run it in all my equipment and actual temp. (not wind-chill) has be down to -38F (about -39C). I don't think wind-chill has anything to do with the parafin in diesel-fuel gelling, just the actual ambient temperature. Wind chill accelerates the amount of time it takes for something to cool down, but does not lower the actual temp. I add kerosene and anitgel, and subsequently have no gelling problems. On to your B275 tractor, is it the early model with the CAV in-line pump and air governor, or the later CAV rotary with centrifugal governor?

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Phil Anderson

01-20-2004 06:30:50




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 Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to jdemaris, 01-20-2004 05:23:32  
I don't know what type it is, but my tractor was built in 1961...



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jdemaris

01-20-2004 07:17:13




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 Re: Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil Anderson, 01-20-2004 06:30:50  
B275 used two different systems; I don't know for sure what year they changed. First system with CAV in-line pump - the injection lines hook to the pump with four all in row - facing perpendicular. Later rotary CAV has a cylinder -shaped section on the pump where the lines hook - and banjo bolts hold the four lines on, going around a circle. Older pump has has primer/transfer pump bolted to the side of it.

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Phil

01-20-2004 17:59:38




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help in reply to jdemaris, 01-20-2004 07:17:13  
third party image

Her's a pic of the fuel injector pump...



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lee

01-19-2004 10:47:40




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 Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil Anderson, 01-19-2004 08:42:18  
Here is a quick dscription of the venting procedure for an IH 354 which uses the same BD144 engine and should be similar.

1)adequate fuel, fuel shut-off fully open, engine stop control in stop position
2)loosen air vent screw at water trap until fuel free of air bubbles flows from vent screw. tighten.
3)loosen spill pipe banjo bolt at top of fuel filter canister. Use hand pump til fuel free of bubbles, tighten banjo while fuel still flowing
4)Loosen injector pump inlet pipe and use hand pump til fuel free of bubbles, tighten while fuel still flowing
5)loosen lower vent screw on injector pump body and use hand pump til fuel free of bubbles, tighten while fuel still flowing
6)loosen upper vent screw and use hand pump til fuel free of bubbles, tighten
7)turn engine 1/2 turn , bleed the lower vent screw again as above.
8)push engine stop control in to run position
9)loosen all injector unions at the injectors,
move the governor lever to full open. Turn the engine with the starting motor til fuel free of bubbles from all unions, tighten unions.
10)start the engine
if it runs smooth you are done. If not loosen each injector union for a few seconds, in turn, while running.

This is atwo man job more or less as you need someone to hand pump it and one to loosen and tighten the vents or other connections while fuel still flowing.

This well better get you going as I just spent 20 minutes typing it. If it ran before this should do it.

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Phil Anderson

01-19-2004 17:27:45




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 Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to lee, 01-19-2004 10:47:40  
Lee,

Thanks for the description...with the exception of the air vent screw at the water trap (which I don't have), the procedure that you outlined is exactly what I have in my owners manual...which is exactly what I did.
What I'm wondering is why there is no fuel coming out of the bottom vent screw on the injection pump. Assume that I have done everything else up to there with no problems...
Does this indicate a problem with the injector pump?
I'm assuming that it shouldn't take 4 minutes of pumping the manual fuel pump to get fuel from the injector pump inlet pipe to the lower vent screw on the injector pump housing...?

Thanks,
Phil

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lee

01-19-2004 18:35:07




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 Re: Re: Re: B275 CAV fuel pump problems...help. in reply to Phil Anderson, 01-19-2004 17:27:45  
I don't have anything on the injection pump itself. My only suggestion would be to try it when it gets above freezing. -5 is still rather cold and that's a substantial block of iron the pump is attached to, eh? You might also do the following. Remove the inlet tube at the injector pump. Block it with your finger and operate the manual pump. Insure you have good manual priming pressure at the injector pump inlet. If you have good flow and pressure there and it is above freezing and you don't get fuel from either the upper or lower vents then something must be blocking the fuel internal to the pump. I can't imagine what it might turn out to be. I'm thinking it was still frozen.

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