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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent Christmas Day

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AC

12-28-2003 05:22:58




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I got my M running for the first time in 20 years Christmas day. It sat out for about 6 to 8 years, and got one good drink before someone put a can over the manifold. I pulled the head, broke the front two cylinders loose (actually, the motor had been soaking for 4 months, and broke free quite easily. The rear two cylinders were not stuck. Anyway, the cylinder walls were good and the pistons were good. I cleaned them up. I then took out the valves and cleaned them up, and cleaned the head. There was a considerable amount of rotted metal from the manifold in the cylinder ports above the two cylinders that were stuck. I then removed the manifold only to find about a can full of rot and rust. The outside of the manifold is quite rotten and has a hair line crack, but does not seem to leak. But there was a tremendous amount of rotten metal and rust that came out of the manifold. So I got it running. It runs on the two back cylinders that were not stuck. The two fronts pop every now and then, but the spark plugs come out clean and cold. Its a crying shame because the two rear cylinders run with no smoke at all and if the front two would kick in, I think It would run well. Do you guys think that the manifold is so rotten in the inside, that it is keeping most of the fuel/air from traveling to the cylinders in the front? Appearantly, most of what fell off ended up in that part of the head. I have tried about everything. I have all the valves working properly, I lapped the HE!! out of the valves just to get them to seat properly. The valves are on good shape. The seats could be better, but I cleaned it up pretty well. It has good compression and blows my finger off the plug hole HARD...I am running out of things to try...Thanks...AC

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john d

12-28-2003 11:14:34




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 Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent Christmas in reply to AC, 12-28-2003 05:22:58  
You've indicated that the front two cylinders have compression. We'll assume that they are getting fuel since you've cleaned the manifold and worked on the valves for a while. (You did set the valve clearances, right?)

If it has compression and fuel, all it needs is spark, and proper timing. With the engine running (sort of) take a long screwdriver and put the tip of the blade against the block. Then bring the shaft of the screwdriver really close to the metal cap on the end of the spark plug wire. If no spark, it won't run on that cylinder. If that's the case, check the wire and the distributor cap. Check both of the front two cylinders that way. If you have spark, is there any chance you have those two plug wires reversed?

Another, more remote chance, is two bad plugs. Try swapping the plugs to the other two cylinders and see if your problem continues, or moves to the rear of the engine.

Keep chasing; you'll catch it!

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Michael Soldan

12-28-2003 06:43:20




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 Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent Christmas in reply to AC, 12-28-2003 05:22:58  
A C, My experience with manifolds is that the slightest crack can cause problems and the rough rusted pitted surfaces of the manifold will change and restrict flow. I was messing with an H and decided I wasn't going to fool around and I bought a brand new manifold($190 Canadian)...that tractor ran like new and the difference was incredible, I believe an older tractor is only as good as its manifold. You can check your manifold for leaks by holding a propane or acetylene torch( not lit!)around the surfaces of the manifold and let the gas flow around the seams to check for warp or gasket leak. If there is a leak the engine will smooth out, if there is no leak the engine will give no noticable change as it runs. Your flow of the manifold will be critical and as I said if its really pitted and pock marked the flow will be changed significantly and it will affect the performance of each cylinder. I was really pleased with the manifold I got and the performance of the tractor. The old manifold was cracked out in several places and the tractor sounded like a Deere John, it is now a good running reliable tractor that starts easily and works its share around the farm at hay time. When you go to remove the old manifold heat the nuts red hot , then douse them with cold water and they should come off with ease. new gaskets are available from lots of places ( even NAPA). My Dad's M sat in the barn for ten years before I got it running. I had to do some manifold work on it. I removed the manifold and took it to a machine shop where we reworked the top of it and put a new spout on, the rest of the manifold wasn't that bad, new gaskets and cleaned the points and I fired her up on the second lift of the crank. Good luck AC with the M, I don't know everything, I'm just sharing what has been my experience and what has worked for me....Mike in Exeter Ontario

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The Red

12-28-2003 06:28:57




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 Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent Christmas in reply to AC, 12-28-2003 05:22:58  
AC you are getting there. Did you replace the sparkplugs and plug wires?



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AC

12-28-2003 09:22:41




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 Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent Chris in reply to The Red, 12-28-2003 06:28:57  
Yup...Well, the plugs are brand new, and the wires and Mag came off the H that I used to pull the M in the garage. I just think it's ironic that the two cylinders that were stuck and had the most crap from the manifold also are the ones that won't hardly fire....Thanks to both of you, AC



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Tommy H

12-28-2003 09:51:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spent C in reply to AC, 12-28-2003 09:22:41  
Well youve obviously got to have certain things happen just right ot make the Cylinder fire right.

Got to have
Compression--- Check
Fuel and air---Check
Spark---?

Youve got compresssion, and fuel and Air, but is there good spark at those front plugs? If there is, id get some JB Cold Weld and patch the larger cracks and see if it is infact the manifold causing trouble.



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Jeff

12-28-2003 22:59:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spe in reply to Tommy H, 12-28-2003 09:51:57  
You found out what about 15,000 volts feels like! Kind of gets things to jingle a little?



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AC

12-28-2003 11:06:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I spe in reply to Tommy H, 12-28-2003 09:51:57  
Made a rookie mistake when I checked spark..My hand happened to be a little close..IT"S GOT GRRRRREEEEAAATT SPARK! I'm just not sure it's getting air...Tell you why..I took off the manifold, and the passages are wet...hmmmm....still need ideas...Where the manifold looks bad is on the part of the manifold that feeds the rear two cylinders. They run fine. The front two are not firing..but there are no external cracks there...AC

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Rick(MN)

12-28-2003 13:28:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (How I in reply to AC, 12-28-2003 11:06:29  
My money is going to be on the fact that the manifold is bad. Cylinders 1 and 2 share a common intake on the manifold. You might want to take a look at the gasket mating surfacr of the manifold also. The smallest flake of rust not scraped or chipped off can cause an intake leak. (learned that one the hard way at a young age) Gook Luck



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I FIXED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

12-28-2003 17:07:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bad manifold??? AKA : (H in reply to Rick(MN), 12-28-2003 13:28:30  
I still am at a young age...well...22 anyway. I Am SO STUPID. I must have run over the timing 50 times, but I re checked it, and I had the two plug wires crossed up. It runs well, now. I guess that's what I get for getting used to working on those green ones...can't do worth a darn on a firing order taller than two! HAHA...AC



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