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JD 410 slow hydro

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ChrisB

09-27-2007 17:55:07




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I recently went through a nightmare after I replaced the rear-end on a '79 410. 5 minutes after getting the rear-end replaced and the machine running I blew a hose and lost high pressure. After posting my troubles here I pretty much took apart and cleaned all of the high pressure side of the machine. Only to find out I had a leak on a high pressure hole that ran up the side of the tranny (most likely used for a side pto on a farm machine). The seal leaking was between the tranny / rear-end cover and the tranny.

Anyways the machine is running now. Problem is the hydro seems a little slow. Most seem jut a little slow, but the backhoe boom is really slow and barely moves when the bucket is full.

Pressure on the main pump is 2300psi. I am thinking the pressure relief valve on the side of the tranny (which I have taken apart and cleaned previously but might of put it back wrong as in not enough washers) and the pressure relief valve on the backhoe controls.

Am I assuming correctly? I am pretty sure that the hydryo fluid was dirty at one point during the reer-end breaking and the time it took to replace it.

Also if any one could explain the pressure relief valve on the side of the tranny, that would be helpful.

Thanks,

Chris

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Roy Suomi

09-29-2007 19:09:47




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to ChrisB, 09-27-2007 17:55:07  
Forgot to say something when testing steering and valves downstream....You will have to rehook up the pump output line to the output elbow at the pump....



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Roy Suomi

09-29-2007 19:06:58




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to ChrisB, 09-27-2007 17:55:07  
I didn't forget about you...Had a hectic day..OK Under serial number 246127 ,the reading you should have when raising the loader at 1200 rpm is 1700 to 1800 psi..After serial number 246128 the reading should be 1300 plus or minus 50 lbs..You said you couldn't get the stand-by pressure up past 2000 lbs...I would look for an internal oil leak downstream from the hydraulic pump..Since the system is a closed center type , you can dead-head the hydraulic oil comming out of the pump without any damage..I'd get a JIC cap to fit the elbow coming out of the pump..This is the one that goes from the pump and goes past the steering valve to the pressure control valve..Now try to adjust the pump stand-by pressure to specs..If you can now adjust the stand-by pressure to 2350-2400 psi at above idle speed.....That tells me you have a leak downstream from the pump..Next item to plug off is the steering valve...Put a JIC cap on the "T" on that main line going to the pressure control valve and let the steering line hang there during the test..Then do the same thing to the loader control valve then the backhoe valve by disconnecting the input line and plugging or capping the line to eliminate what ever is leaking....I hope that shed some light on that hydraulic system....Roy

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Roy Suomi

09-27-2007 20:41:44




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to ChrisB, 09-27-2007 17:55:07  
The valve on the side of the trans case is actually a priority valve..It makes sure you have steering oil over loader/backhoe oil..Depending on serial number will tell what the pressures are set at..When you test oil pressures , you will have a gauge a gauge in the top port of the hydraulic pump..While seated in the operators station , raise the loader and read the gauge..This is the reading that matters..This adjustment will allow you to raise the loader while steering at the same time..It is shim adjustable inside the spool in the priority valve..Let us know about serial number and we can come up with correct pressure for priority valve..

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Roy Suomi

09-28-2007 19:22:56




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to Roy Suomi, 09-27-2007 20:41:44  
Try to adjust the stand-by pressure at the hydraulic pump to around 2350 to 2400 psi at just above an idle[ 1000-1200 rpm]..then again check the pressure while raising the loader..I neglected to look at my tech manual for the correct s/n to pressure spec..I'll have to get back to you tomorrow [Sat.] morning with that info..I don't remember the shim / pressure for that pressure control valve adjustment..I always put back in whatever came out..Roy

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ChrisB

09-28-2007 19:46:17




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to Roy Suomi, 09-28-2007 19:22:56  
Roy,
Thanks again for the help. I remember having a hard time getting the pump adjusted above 2000psi when the pump was new. I thought at the time the gauge might be off (cheap Chinese unit).

I would of thought that the pump dropping 1000psi would of pointed to the priority valve. I do remember there being two shims in their originally. Maybe I will open her up and double check that as I think I might of added more shims in trying to fix the previous problem.

I did take out the pressure relief valve above the filter as per your advise in a previous post.

As far as the hydro being slow, it is really only a little slower, but most noticeably on the backhoe boom, as it is slow and weak.
Thanks again,

Chris

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ChrisB

09-28-2007 14:39:51




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to Roy Suomi, 09-27-2007 20:41:44  
Roy,

After using some common sense I have this to report.

While the loader is moving, the pressure drops down to 1000psi from 2000psi.

If memory serves me correct I need to add more shims. Any guess as to how many?

Thanks,

Chris



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ChrisB

09-28-2007 08:19:05




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to Roy Suomi, 09-27-2007 20:41:44  
Roy,

Thanks for explaining that to me. Makes all the sense now. Just to make sure we are talking the same thing. The manual calls the part that I mentioned as a 'pressure relief' as a 'pressure control valve'. Is that the same as the 'priority valve' . It bolts to the side of the tranny and is not a plug. I did monkey with this in desperation trying to find the previous leak and did adjust some shims (I know there where two in there originally) and now would call it suspect if it might be the problem.
I have a gauge that I keep on the hydro pump. I was wrong above, it runs at 2000 PSI not the 2300 that I mentioned above. It is a newer pump about 3 years old and maybe 200 hours on her at the least.
As far as serial number I am not sure of mine, but I know it is in between 235786 thru 235999.

With the gauge reading you mentioned; should the gauge be read as the front loader goes up (as in while it is going up)? More or less see what the pressure is dropping to while it is going up?

Thanks again for the help,

Chris

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135 Fan

09-27-2007 18:40:00




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to ChrisB, 09-27-2007 17:55:07  
Is it possible it has an air lock? I put new quick couplers on my quick attach backhoe and the loader bucket wouldn't even try to lift the front off the ground. I un-coupled the connectors and took the resevoir cap off to let the pressure out of the tank so the quick couplers would go together easier. The bucket control then easily lifted the front. The only thing I can figure is that there was an air lock. I thought that I might have to get the Cat quick couplers. They were a fortune so I'm glad it was a simple problem. Hopefully yours will be too. Dave

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ChrisB

09-28-2007 07:41:15




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to 135 Fan, 09-27-2007 18:40:00  
Dave, Not sure if it is an airlock. Along with the bleeding I have already done (intentional or not) plus the self-bleeding I think it would not be an airlock. Although stranger things have happened.

The front end loader lifts the machine off the ground just fine. Just somewhat slow.



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Roy Suomi

09-28-2007 19:25:48




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 Re: JD 410 slow hydro in reply to ChrisB, 09-28-2007 07:41:15  
Another thing to check for is a chip of metal or foreign matter stuck in the filter relief valve. This will make hydraulics slow and wimpy..



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