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Crawlers, Dozers, Loaders & Backhoes Discussion Forum

What kind of tracked loader should I get?

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15 acre wooded

10-04-2003 16:25:45




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Hi, I bought 15 acres of wooded land and now I need to build my house on it. I have to put in a 900 foot driveway and clear an acre or so of woods. Also I have many big trees down because of the recent Isabel storm. I'm looking for a tracked loader or maybe a dozer or maybe a tracked loader with a backhoe on it....not too big and not too tiny. It has to be able to pull pretty big stumps and drag fairly good size oak/pine logs to the lot entrance. The back hoe attachment would be nice to dig footings, but isn't absolutely necessary. A power takeoff would be nice for a woodchipper. A winch would be nice to have when felling tough trees, but again is not absolutely required. I don't know much about heavy equipment, so if you can give me advice I'd really appreciate it. I have mechanical abilities (working on cars and motorcyles for 20+ years, but never heavy equipment), but would prefer a unit that is fairly modern and in decent shape (i.e. that doesn't need to be fixed and has a good amount of life left on it). I'm willing to spend up to ~$18,000 or so on the right machine. (but would prefer to keep it closer to $10K if possible). What do you guys think? What would suit my needs the best? Any recommendations? Thanks in advance, Sean

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Bob

10-05-2003 20:13:32




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 Re: What kind of tracked loader should I get? in reply to 15 acre wooded lot owner, 10-04-2003 16:25:45  
John Deere 450C with 9300 Backhoe attachment. About 20,000 lbs. I had one for 5 years with no problems.



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15 acre wooded lot owner

10-06-2003 14:55:59




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 Re: Re: What kind of tracked loader should I get? in reply to Bob, 10-05-2003 20:13:32  
Hey all, thanks for responding. Bob so you use a 450C with no problems huh? That's great, I've been looking at the 450 series of crawlers. They seem to be right about the right size, have the backhoe attachment (although not all of them are sold with one) and appear to be affordable (as far as heavy equip goes). But I've been reading some kind of scary stories about them with cracked frames, frozen dry clutches, tranny problems etc. Seems like a lot of folks are cutting on them (and John Deere in general)...but then I was researching the B model (someone is selling a B model near me). Not sure if the C is like the B...what is the difference between a C and B? And do you use your 450 to tear out big stumps and will it clear out a 900 foot driveway? (lined with trees and stumps and topsoil) And will it drag and move big logs and that kind of stuff? Based on my research its starting to look like the following candidates: JD 450B,C or higher model?, Case 450 or 455 loader, Cat 931, Cat 933, Cat 941, Cat 943, Cat 955, Komatsu??? And any others?? If anyone has suggestions or discussion on these or others like them, let me know cuz I'm really interested in learning more. Thanks, Sean

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TimV

10-06-2003 19:26:28




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 Re: Re: Re: What kind of tracked loader should I g in reply to 15 acre wooded lot owner, 10-06-2003 14:55:59  
Sean: I've used several 350 and 450 dozers, and I think you'll find them (or a similarly-sized machine) a bit light for serious clearing work. While I have not used a 450 with a backhoe, I have used a 350 with a backhoe, and owned a Fordson Super Major with a similarly-sized (14' reach) hoe. None of these machines are big enough to do much tree clearing or road building, unless you're prepared to take a LOT of time doing it. I'm not sure what you're calling "big" trees, but anything much more than 2 to 2 1/2 foot on the stump will take quite a bit of digging with any of these units to remove. The 450's are a good machine, but (like most equipment) they don't like to set, they like to run. Long periods of inactivity will lead to more problems than a hard day's work. The larger CAT (or other brands) excavators are probably a better choice for what you're looking to do, though they are typically quite a bit more expensive. In particular, look for a "thumb" on the bucket--it is a big help if you're doing clearing work, and can even make the excavator into a passable log loader. Still, as I'd mentioned below, unless time is not a big factor, it will almost certainly be cheaper to hire the "bull work" done, and buy a small dozer, trackloader, or backhoe to do the finish work.

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Sean

10-07-2003 07:24:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What kind of tracked loader should in reply to TimV, 10-06-2003 19:26:28  
Tim, Thanks for the input, you sound like a wise person when it comes to excavating and heavy equipment. I guess I sound like a pretty naive newbie wanting to buy a loader/dozer to clear my own woods, without fully realizing whats involved and the possible expense of fixing an overused (undersized) broken machine. And I suppose on some level I am. However, there are a few more "practical" reasons Im considering buying a machine for myself (aside from the land clearing). I've been reseraching the possible tax benfits/breaks with owning a large wooded parcel, and tree farming is looking pretty good so far. If I enroll in a tree farming program, from what I can tell so far I would be able to write off tool expenses which may include the cost of heavy equipment (up to a certain limit of course). And if I do manage the land (which I will have to do at least on some level) then I'll need something pretty substantial to pull logs out once in a while. Although I certainly dont plan on being a big time logger thats for sure, only a very small scale situation. Then there is the real reason...I just want one!! LOL Seriously though, one of my earliest memories was when I was maybe 3 years old riding in the car with my Dad and we passed a bull dozer on the side of the road at a construction site. I was transfixed with it, and begged my dad to take me to it and let me sit on it. My dad finally broke down and took me over to the dozer and set my little butt up in the seat and let me pretend to ride it for a few minutes. That was ~35 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. Of course I had the tonka trucks and dozers and cranes I used to play with for hours and hours as well. Heavy equipment just rings some kind of deep seated bell in some kids who I believe never fully outgrow that attraction...even though they may grow up to be accountants or lawyers or some other white collar profession (like me). I was even a soils inspector for about 5 years (in my ealry 20's) when I was going through engineering school. And I worked with heavy equipment operators all the time. I spent many hours on big jobs with D-8's pushing pans moving fill from one place to another for huge developments. I've stared at 953's and 963's tearing up trees and digging up basements for residential homes for too many hours to count. But even then, I never operated any equipment even though I wanted to (except that one time they asked me to run the roller, which was fun for about a 1/2 hour, then was pretty boring). ANYWAY, sorry to run on like that...but now that Im finally financially secure enough to afford a big lot and maybe even buy some kind of heavy equipment, Im seriously thinking about doing so. But on the other hand deep down inside I know what you are saying is true. I should subcontract the heavy stuff, and in the end I probably will. Plus, the more I look at the dense woods and all that thick underbrush and some of the bigger oak stumps (which are over 2.5 feet in diameter) and then I examine the scope of clearing over an acre of that plus a 900 foot driveway...then of course all I can think of is "This place needs a D8!" Which brings me to my next question...Ive seen quite a few older big dozers for sale for under $20K. D6's, D7's and even D8's from the 60's-70's (and lots of big Komatsu's too for cheap). Many of them claim they are in good condition with 60% undercarriages and are "ready for work". God help me if I had a mechanical problem with a big sucker like that, I know if would break the bank. But Im almost thinking if I had it looked over by an experienced mechanic and he gave it a clean bill of health...maybe I could buy one and use it to cut my driveway and clear my lot. And then sell it and buy a smaller unit, before it breaks down on me. But I suppose thats pie in the sky and I should just pay someone to tear up the big stuff and get a smaller unit...but I havent ruled anything out yet, still investigating. But I appreciate your advice alot, in the end thats probably exactly what Im going to do but what I wouldnt give to be sitting on a D8 at full throttle in low gear as I lower the blade on a big oak stump and let it sink in when it makes that grunting sound!!! AWESOME!!!!! LOL!!!! You operators are lucky people!!!

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TimV

10-07-2003 16:38:51




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What kind of tracked loader sh in reply to Sean, 10-07-2003 07:24:21  
Sean: I kind of suspected that might be at the bottom of this :-) You know what they say about the difference between men and boys..... ... Of course, I myself only buy things strictly for work (and if you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you!) You certainly CAN do what you planned on--buy a piece of large equipment for a specific job, and then sell it when you're through. In fact, that's just what I did with the backhoe I mentioned in my previous post. I had much the same situation that you did, but on a bit smaller scale. When I bought my current house, it was on 3 acres of scrub brush--mostly white birch. Also, it needed some landscaping, some ditches dug along the front edge, and an old house trailer that the previous owner had used for storage (read: junk collection) demolished and cleaned up. I bought the backhoe, did all the work with it, and sold it a year later to a local farmer for just what I'd paid for it, basically getting a year's use for the cost of fuel and some minor maintenance. On the other hand, it's rare to be able to do this--Murphy's law has an annoying habit of kicking in, and something major will break the minute you get it home, or right in the middle of your job. There's also the experience factor--I'm not an equipment operator by a long shot--actually, I'm a mechanical engineer who grew up on a dairy farm. I'd ran a backhoe before, but not extensively, and this old six-sticker took a lot of getting used to before I could do a decent job with it! Heavy clearing is extremely dangerous work, demanding highly skilled operators and specialized equipment. You could find a very nice JD-350,440, D2, D3, or similarly sized machine for half of your budget and use it for the finish work after the big stuff is done. Alternately, $10,000 will buy you your pick of mid-sized 4x4 (50 hp or thereabouts) tractors in reasonable shape, and with a front bucket and a log boom, they make a respectable "woods tractor". During high school, I spent several winters skidding saw logs with an old Oliver OC4 crawler and a JD 5400 (60 hp) 4x4 tractor for our Wood-Mizer sawmill. Don't let me stop you from doing what you want, but I think you'd be MUCH happier with a machine that requires a lot less care and feeding than the big old crawlers are apt to need.

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Brutus

10-04-2003 19:35:09




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 Re: What kind of tracked loader should I get? in reply to 15 acre wooded lot owner, 10-04-2003 16:25:45  
if you really have the time and desire to do the work yourself,look into leasing equipment from a dealer. that way if it breaks or blows up, its not your problem. start with a hydraulic excavator,than a dozer to clean up afterward. when the heavy work is done,spend your money on a nice 4wd loader tractor to maintain your property. -brutus-



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TimV

10-04-2003 16:45:21




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 Re: What kind of tracked loader should I get? in reply to 15 acre wooded lot owner, 10-04-2003 16:25:45  
Sean: If it were my money, I'd hire a good bit of the stuff done, and then buy a smaller machine for upkeep. To do what you want without taking forever at it would require a pretty big machine. These machines are not only expensive to buy and operate, but are VERY expensive to fix when pieces fall off from them. Getting someone into your property with a big hoe for a couple of days will not be that expensive (rates usually run between $75 and $100 an hour) and once they're done with the big stuff you could buy a smaller machine for the clean-up.

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