Posted by John T on December 14, 2009 at 07:49:17 from (66.244.97.31):
In Reply to: Electricity price posted by 37 chief on December 13, 2009 at 18:34:08:
WOW the guy asked a simple question and Id think if a person provided him a well thought out "ballpark estimate" people should be pleased.....
The ONLY way to give a "perfect" answer would be to measure the actual load and actual current draw and then see how the utility charges including the KWH rate and any poor power factor penalties and time of use (peak times may charge more). I view the utility as billing for Killowatt Hours NOTTTTTTTT Killo Volt Amp Hours HAVE TO ASK THEM THAT IM NOTTTTTTTTT SPECULATING ANY ANSWER HERE. (arent those things outside our house called Watt Hour meters instead of Volt Amp Hour meters???)
I see the way Janicholson and the buick man (he works in this field you know) approached the problem AS ACCURATE (considering the question given allllllll the unknowns such as power factor and any penalties and KWH rate etc)
Where I worked as an engineer we were charged for KWH use (amps x volts x time, it was not Killo Volt Amp Hours) but had an additional penalty if we were running a lousy power factor.
That whole Power factor thing is too complex to set out here in a few paragraphs what takes a book to fill and beyond what the poster asked in my opinion. Theres power and apparent power and Power Factor has to do with the degree of lag angle between the voltage and current. If the load is pure resisitve, current and voltage are in phase and if P = E x I x Cosine of the phase angle and the cosine of 0 = 1 THEN ITS A UNITY 1 POWER FACTOR (Volt x Amps = Watt)
HOWEVER a motor is an inductive load and some of the energy the utility provided goes to creating a magnetic field in the motor windings but you get no actual "work" out of it. The utility has to provide the amps x volts (watts) to make the motor turn (thats work). In the motor inductive load the current lags the voltage so theres a phase angle between the voltage and current legs and if P = E x I x Cosine of that phase angle THE POWER FACTOR IS NOTTTTTTTT GOING TO EQUAL ONE and the utility may or may not charge differently HAVE TO ASK THEM... Theres still the Voltage and Current BUTTTTTTTT the phase angle between them changes and thats what power factor is all about.....
Sooooooooo my answer would be similar to Buicks and Janicholsons Id ESTIMATE the volts x amp draw (thats ONLY an estimate, we dont know the load mind you) and estimate the running time and convert that to KWH and see what the KWH charge is and that would be my answer. Then if that wasnt good enough for the poster he can see if and how the utility deals with power factor AND IF theres any penalty and/or if they bill for KWH or KVAH etc BUT I BET BUICK AND JANICHOLSONS ANSWERS WOULD BE REASONABLY CLOSE
God Bless yall, this may help or may confuse lol power factor is beyond the posters question but KWH and the utilitys charge for a KWH he can likely comprehend and REGARDLESS I bet Buciks answer will be darn close.......
An early Merry Christmas
John T (Tooooo long retired and rusty EE to explain all this stuff as well as Buick could)
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]
Today's Featured Article - Fasteners: The Nuts and Bolts of Nuts and Bolts - by Curtis Von Fange. The nuts and bolts of nuts and bolts is an interesting and essential piece of knowledge that applies to our older tractors. An improperly torqued capscrew on an engine head or a shear bolt that is too hard on the driving shaft of a bushog can create havoc and make an expensive and uncalled for repair. Let�s examine the purpose and design of these fasteners in order to ensure their proper use. Fasteners are probably one of the aspects of mechanics that is given the least amount of thought.
... [Read Article]
Latest Ad:
one 8n and one 9n tractor. totaly restored,pretty much everything is new. one 6ft blade good shape.
[More Ads]
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy
TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
