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Re: OT- I'm considering a geothermal system- any advise?


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Posted by T_Bone on September 26, 2009 at 16:45:15 from (64.57.205.153):

In Reply to: Re: OT- I'm considering a geothermal system- any advise? posted by bob featherstone on September 25, 2009 at 21:01:17:

Hi all,

I'll answer all here as not to repeat myself.

All calculations are preformed in pounds, or the weight of the substance used, not gallons.

Very important too understand this law: The 2nd law of thermodynamics states;

"Heat flows from a warmer source too a cooler source."

Using the 2nd law, we can diagnose or engineer any design where there is a fluid flow.

Air is considered a "fluid". Air weighs .00075lbs/cft @ 70ºf/50%r.h.

"Cold" only occurs at absolute zero, minus 460ºf. Any temperature above absolute zero, is considered to be a "lack of heat" by refrigeration engineers. This concept is a very important mindset.

Earth temperature at 4ft below the 100yr frost level, is typical 50ºf average thru out the USA. After digging your heat sink lines/tanks, immediately measure in several places the medium height wall temperature 6" inside the earth, using a digital thermometer, about $20. Average the readings taken.

Use a new 1500gal septic tank buried well below the 100yr frost line level, about 4ft deeper. This will handle both 4-ton units.

Costs savings are tremendous VS deep wells or loop lines installs. 1500gal concrete septic tanks cost $1500 delivered in my area. Order a lid size large enough to install the heat exchanger(s). Patch/seal lids/holes with 3parts sand, one part portland mix.

Set the tank in 6" of sand, top, bottom and sides with a soaker hose in several places. Turn the soaker hose on once per month during the summer for 24hrs. This makes a better heat sink than without thus equals more efficiency for only a few more bucks.

After the tank is set, immediately fill with fresh water so the tank won't float incase it rains. Add several pounds of baking soda in each chamber to keep the PH neutral so it doesn't attack your heat exchanger metals.

Flat plate liquid heat exchangers are the most efficient. 316-SS is the least acid resistive for 30yrs use and also the most expensive cost.

A large truck radiator(s), acid boil flush, with NO external paint, works really well for a liquid/liquid heat exchanger as they stack easy. Used AC evaporator coils are another great heat exchanger source.

A typical flat plate heat exchanger has a 5ºf delta. Another words there's a 5º difference in the amount of heat transfered from liquid#1 to liquid#2. That is very efficient.

A typical liquid refrigerant evaporator has a 10ºf delta. This is a liquid/air heat exchanger therefor liquid/liquid delta's are unknown.

A typical truck radiator is an air/liquid heat exchanger with a 18ºf delta.

HP's are very efficient at 45ºf. They will heat down too 0ºf ambient "if" sized correctly for the amount of sft, but the efficiency dramatically drops with temperature.

A Geothermal HP is designed too keep the ambient temperature at 45ºf by using ground source heat.

The best known refrigeration compressor is a scroll compressor. The 2nd best is a piston compressor. Radial compressors are just junk, period.

The best refrigeration units will contain a scroll compressor with a high and low pressure manual reset safety control. Cu coils are the most efficient and have the longest life. All other gadgets, are just that. Copeland scroll compressors would be my number one choice. There is no number two for 20yrs of service.

At $6k for a 4-ton split system HP installed, will cover labor and profit for a contractor. For two units, about $11,500, less the geothermal system and you should have contractors beating down your door for the work.

Do not install your own refrigeration system nor size your required geothermal system. Your unit efficiency will greatly suffer. The best thing you can do too protect yourself is make the contractor sign a guaranteed efficiency contract. Never pay money upfront.

T_Bone<---45yrs ASHREA HVAC Design Engineer, Indoor Air Quality Engineer, Energy Management Engineer, AWS-CWI, Retired


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