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Re: electrical Think about it!!!


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Posted by tlak on March 27, 2009 at 04:44:32 from (64.130.174.70):

In Reply to: electrical Think about it!!! posted by wilson on March 26, 2009 at 19:59:39:

Here's the three categories/definitions of perpetual motion machines. I think perpetual motion machine have been invented (Atmos watch). Whether it sucks energy out of the atmosphere to run and whether usable energy can be siphoned from it is irrelevant to the basic idea. I think some people on here are educated beyond their capacity to understand simplicity.

[edit] Classification
It is customary to classify supposed perpetual motion machines according to which law of thermodynamics they purport to violate:

A perpetual motion machine of the first kind produces energy from nothing, giving the user unlimited 'free' energy. It thus violates the law of conservation of energy.
A perpetual motion machine of the second kind is a machine which spontaneously converts thermal energy into mechanical work. When the thermal energy is equivalent to the work done, this does not violate the law of conservation of energy. However it does violate the more subtle second law of thermodynamics (see also entropy). Such a machine is different from real heat engines (such as car engines), which always involve a transfer of heat from a hotter reservoir to a colder one, the latter being warmed up in the process. The signature of a perpetual motion machine of the second kind is that there is only one heat reservoir involved, which is being spontaneously cooled without involving a transfer of heat to a cooler reservoir. This conversion of heat into useful work, without any side effect, is impossible, as stated by the second law of thermodynamics. In contrast, a hot reservoir inside an internal combustion engine is created by a spark igniting fumes which contain stores of chemical energy. The temperature of the fumes increases above that of the surroundings. This is not a perpetual motion machine since the increase in temperature is a result of the release of a finite available amount of chemical energy - which is always much less than the total heat energy and mass-energy contained within the system. As explained by statistical mechanics, there are far more states in which heat distribution is close to thermodynamic equilibrium than states in which heat is concentrated in small regions, so temperatures will tend to even out over time, reducing the amount of free energy available for conversion to mechanical energy.
A more obscure category is a perpetual motion machine of the third kind, usually (but not always)[2] defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever (due to its mass inertia). Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics. Although it is impossible to make such a machine,[3][4] as dissipation can never be 100% eliminated in a mechanical system, it is nevertheless possible to get very close to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section). Even if such a machine could be built, it would not serve as an endless source of energy, since the amount of available energy is still finite: if we could build a frictionless flywheel, it would eventually slow down and stop if its kinetic energy were tapped for useful work, and we would get no more energy out than the amount that was initially put in to spin up the flywheel.


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