Re: E85 - revisited.

Posted by Jon Hagen on November 03, 2005 at 12:46:04 from (69.26.17.186):

In Reply to: Re: E85 - revisited. posted by Leland on November 03, 2005 at 08:37:23:

I did a search on E95 and found this story. What a mess,sounds like they got going down the wrong road trying to run 95% ethanol in a diesel. seems to me they should be trying to use some sort of crop oil for atleast 50% of the mix,and using ethanol for the spark ignition engines.
Here is a cut/paste of one outfits dismal experience with E95 in Detroit 2 cycle diesels.

Presuming Simon and Rabin (1998) is the article Mr. Calvert refers to in the Los Angeles Times, I have now had the opportunity to read and discuss it with several individuals. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority of Los Angeles has had a relatively large number of buses operating on methanol and ethanol fuels for several years. From my discussions with individuals involved in this program, it appears that the methanol fuel used initially was M85 (85 volume % methanol). Then M100 (100 volume % methanol) was used. M85 and M100 each contained an additive package supplied by Lubrizol Corporation. The ethanol fuel was E95 (95 volume % ethanol) denatured with unleaded gasoline. The buses in questionare equipped with modified Series 92 diesel engines manufactured by Detroit Dies el Corporation. One modification is used for M85 and M100 fuels; another is used for E95 fuel. After a brief start-up period (the engines are equipped with glow plugs), the engines operate as compression-ignition engines in the conventional diesel mode. Without further modification, it is not possible to use either the methanol engine for ethanol, or the ethanol engine for methanol. Also, neither engine will operate on conventional diesel fuel without modification.

In their article, Simon and Rabin (1998) state: "After trying to do the environmentally right thing ¾ and failing miserably ¾ the Metropolitan Transportation Authority took steps Wednesday, [presumably February 18] to convert 324 problem-plagued ethanol and methanol buses to run on dirtier diesel fuel." The information I compiled indicates that corrosion and materials-compatibility problems were encountered, and that injector deposits occurred with the methanol-fueled buses at 80,000 to 100,000 miles of operation, and with the ethanol-fueled buses, as early as 5,000 miles of operation. Simon and Rabin (1998) state: "The methanol buses required engine overhauls every 45,000 miles, on average. The ethanol buses were on the road only 20,000 miles between engine failures."

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