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Re: Observation on the GMO arguement:


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Posted by paul on May 20, 2016 at 11:43:50 from (76.77.197.114):

In Reply to: Re: Observation on the GMO arguement: posted by old on May 20, 2016 at 09:42:54:

I understand, and you are doing pretty good with it all.

Still and all, at the end of a decade, you are losing a bit. It might not show up for decades or century, but over time, as you sell hay some P and K and micros are being hauled away.

The legume will add back some N so that might be neutral. And the horses recycle what they consume so you greatly reduce the amount of P and K that is lost.

If you have a 4 or higher organic matter soil, it can mineralize out that centuries old organic matter and give you all the P and K you need for a hay field.

But still and all, if you are selling hay you are consuming and exporting some P and K. Your conditions you and your children might never need worry about it on that ground, but if we are looking at a textbook, you do have some small net loss?

Dad was a miner. He mined the soil of our farm. He was too cheap to buy much fertilizer, and he was too set in his ways to try different ideas. The P ratings on my farm were 3-9 in most cases, and the K was low as well. I have deep clayish and peat soils, they hold a -lot- of those things. So dad did fine for a couple decades being cheap, and he did use a lot of cover crops (clovers) in his small grain rotation so he kept the organic matter up and added some N that way, recycled the deeper P and K those legumes could pull up from down deeper. But when I came along, it was just all used up, there wasn't anything to recycle any more. The manure from the few cattle only covered 10-20 acres, as the cattle were hauled away there went some of the nutrients manure puts back less than than you harvest for feed naturally.

So I know the game, I've been down the near organic route, and I'm rather frugal myself, I don't like to pay for fertilizer. I'm cutting that hay from my low wet area, and feed the cattle the rolls all winter on my poorer hills where they can eat, poop, and bed down on the hay. It is building up my cropping field, but it is using nutrients from the grass area. I'm moving nutrients, robbing the less useful low ground and adding to the higher good farm ground.

But, if you take something away, you need to replace it. Somehow, sometime. Or suffer lowering yields someday. That could be a lifetime away.....

Not that there is anything wrong at all in what you are doing. Not at all. Just studying the topic, you have to be removing some nutrients from your soil as you sell hay?

Paul

Paul


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