Re: Generator test....

Posted by John T on July 10, 2014 at 05:30:04 from (216.249.72.121):

In Reply to: Generator test.... posted by donjr on July 09, 2014 at 14:03:32:

WARNING This is a long rant so DO NOT READ IT if you don't like that, but if you do then NO WHINING OR COMPLAINING, you have been forewarned!!!!

WOW, as typical when an electrical or legal question is asked it really draws out opinions, everybody comes crawling out of the woodwork, YES INCLUDING ME LOL, some lay some professional, some ignorant some educated, in my professional trained "opinion" some are right, some potentially hazardous and perhaps DEAD wrong!!!

Let me set forth some basics which may or may not be right or wrong, I'm NOT saying. However, they are based on my education (BSEE) and 40+ years as an Electrical Distribution Design Engineer (though long retired so no warranty remember) so take or leave them as you wish NO WARRANTY do whatever you please is fine by me. Consult local authority and the utility NOT me or anyone (especially lay opinions) here is my advice you can take or leave.

1) I'm talking about typical 120/240 VAC Single Phase Three Wire home distribution and emergency generators here.

2) This applies to the number of poles and connectors if you're using plug and receptacles as well as transfer switches as discussed below.

3)If you want to use only a TWO POLE Transfer switch (sort of the same effect if you just use a cord for the transfer), YOU DO NOT SWITCH THE NEUTRAL just the two UnGrounded Hot Phase Conductors. The Utility Grounded Conductor (Neutral) and the Gensets Neutral are bonded together. The incoming Utility Grounded Conductor (Neutral) is of course still earth grounded none of that is changed. In this configuration, the genset IS NOT considered as a "Separately Derived Source". In this configuration the Genets Neutral IS NOT TO BE TIED TO ITS CASE FRAME and if it exists that way that tie should be severed.

4) IMPORTANT NOTE: In the configuration above where you DO NOT switch the Neutrals (they tie together) and the genset is NOT a "Separately Derived Source" and you are transferring 120/240 volt Single Phase Three Wire and you use a cord, YOU NEED A 3 POLE 4 WIRE GROUNDING PLUG AND RECEPTACLE (i.e. 4 terminals 4 wires) AND OF COURSE A 4 CONDUCTOR CORD

NOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

only a 3 wire (3 terminals 3 wires). A typical 240 volt (only) appliance plug and receptacle (2 pole 3 wire grounding) for a load that's 240 ONLY (no 120) DOES NOT SUFFICE AND COULD PRESENT A HAZARD but if you want to do it that way its your life, your home, your risk so do as you wish !!!!!!!!

5) Now, as to how and why it can be hazardous to NOT use the sufficient number of conductors/terminals/poles (3 when 4 are required) has to do with the potential hazards of mixing, matching, and substituting Equipment GroundING Conductors for the Neutral Grounded Conductor. NOTE I've tried here for years to educate the Billy Bobs out there why that's hazardous but I give up, they cant and never will understand it, but that's not anything bad against them, its just that you cant take what requires years of study and experience and volumes of books and describe it here in a paragraph. HOWEVER DO NOTTTTTTTT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT, STUDY THE NEC AND WHAT THE TRUE EXPERTS SAY AND MAYBE YOU WILL SEE WHY IT CAN BE HAZARDOUS.

6) TO THOSE WHO DID IT THAT WAY FOR YEARS AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM. That's fine do as you wish, I'm NOT telling you to do it otherwise. HOWEVER just because it WORKS does NOT mean its the safest way and NOT potentially hazardous. You may possibly perhaps just want to stop and think that maybe just maybe the EXPERTS like the panel who write the NEC, who are trained and experienced professionals and know 1000 times more then you or I about electrical safety and hazards JUST MAYBE THEY KNOW MORE THEN YOU AND BILLY BOB!!!

HOWEVER ITS YOUR LIFE, YOUR HOME, YOUR FAMILY AT RISK NOT ME, SO DO AS YOU PLEASE AND IGNORE THE TRUE EXPERTS IF THEY SAY ITS HAZARDOUS BUT YOU THINK YOU KNOW MORE THEN THEM!!!!!!!!! If your doctor says you need heart surgery or will die and its hazardous if you don't, do you take their advice or Billy Bobs or a Tractor Forum LOL

7) Finally to those who worry, or those who do NOT worry about a genset backfeeding the utility and possibly causing death, IT HAS HAPPENED ITS POSSIBLE GIVEN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES. However, trained professional linemen and NOT STUPID so its rare it ever happens anymore BUT IT STILL COULD. A close friend is a Journeyman lineman (and I worked with many many of them for years when I practiced) and they can see if theres lights on in a home and they can hear a genset running BUT JUST IN CASE TO PROTECT THEMSELVES THEY DISCONNECT OR GROUND LINES to prevent such a problem. SO, ITS RARE IT COULD HAPPEN but why take a chance when a life is at stake.

CONCLUSION for 120/240 Volt Single Phase Three Wire emergency genset distribution, do as you please and use 3 wires (even where 4 is safest per the NEC and Utility Company and Experts) and as you wish and ignore whats safest and the NEC says AT YOUR OWN PERIL as you like or if ITS ALWAYS WORKED BEFORE BY GOLLY LOL. Its your home your life at risk and maybe the finest experts in the world dont know as much as your or your brother in law or Billy Bob say. BUT MAYBE THEY ARE RIGHT AND YOURE WRONG HMMMMMMMM WANT TO BET YOUR LIFE ON THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FEEL FREE

Im here to help NOT fight or argue so yall do as you wish or whats worked for years and what you think is best regardless if experts say otherwise if you're convinced you know more then them, no sweat off me, its NOT my home or familys life at risk....... Again DO NOT take my advice it may be wrong it may be right, but if you do want to take the advice of EXPERTS regarding life threatening situations, consult local utility providers and/or the NEC instead of non trained non profession non expert lay opinions even if their way always worked no problems!! Your life your choice

God Bless, keep safe, best wishes

John T

Replies:

• Re: Generator test.... buickanddeere 06:49:42 07/10/14 (1)
  • Re: Generator test.... JMOR 08:55:09 07/10/14 (0)

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