Re: resonding to old post.....your choice of a 90-100 hp ...

Posted by Jack a on June 29, 2012 at 05:32:10 from (129.176.151.11):

In Reply to: resonding to old post.....your choice of a 90-100 hp in 70's posted by oldtanker on June 28, 2012 at 06:24:07:

oldtanker said: (quoted from post at 06:24:07 06/28/12) Actually Jack...... The Gleaners series combines were very popular but from personal experiences the big custom crews didn't use em. My BIL got his 1st one in the mid 70's and used Gleaners until about 10 years ago when he went to a Case IH axil flow. They were running JD's and MF's. The Gleaners were known for doing a better job but were not a durable as the JD and MF bines of the time. On the crew I was with we had 3 7700 JD's along with 3 grain trucks. We started harvest in OK and worked our way north to ND and west MN Red River Valley. At the end of the season we had put on over 1,000 hours on each bine. With the big custom outfits durability was behind the buying decisions. My boss would tell us over and over.....you want clean buy Gleaner.....you want to do custom work don't. AC wasn't the only company that built tractor with tranny issues. Look at what IH did to itself with the 560. In the 60's and early 70's many companies ran ads about how their product was more modern and therefore better.....so a lot of times products were rushed into production against the advice of the engineers to get a jump on that. IH's 560 is a classic example of that. With IH when the chief bean counter who cut the engineers off on the 560 tranny was named CEO he fired the chief engineer on the 560 project a couple of years after the fact. I think from what I've read that AC for the most part targeted the budget farmers until the late 60's. In the 50's and 60's 100 dollars was a lot of money. So if you could build something with fewer features you could undercut other companies. When AC tried jumping into the higher end lines they just were not ready to spend the money on R&D that they should have. Ad in that thier ag division was just part of a larger company......just like IH was making trucks, appliances.....just too many things. Rick

I'm not sure when you ran in the custom harvest but I know that the custom harvest is where Gleaners were most popular. They dominated the custom harvest during the 1960's and 70's. You must be thinking of when Gleaner introduced the N Series. IMO the long shoe L2 was the best that the 1970's and early 80's had to offer followed by the earlier L/L2.

As far as tractors I agree with you but not entirely. I think the biggest reason AC didn't get the sales it should have was because of marketing. Deere and IH was waaaay better at marketing everything they sold. The 190 was hurt by it's first year and a half of production having weak rear ends and they should have gave a whole new name to the beefed up 190 in 1966 to escape the bad rep. But if reliability of a model or two was the problem then IH should have given up much sooner.

I worked in both an AC shop and at an IH dealership. I know the weak spots of the 7000 series and the 56-86 Series. There are so many weak spots on the IH compared to the 7000 series it isn't even funny. Like how IH built such complication into the front axle and 3-point. They wear out and they break parts that 7050 doesn't even have to do the same task. Look at the front axle on a 1566 and compare to a 7050. The 7050 is heavier and pretty much trouble free while the 1566, as on all 06/56/66/86 series, had a front axle that would wear out fast and or break right off at times. The rear ends weren't the most reliable, the PTO gave troubles that the Allis didn't. The shidfting mechanism even with the updates were a problem, they shucked hydraulic pumps regular enough so that when you rebuild or replace the TA (which 90% of these tractors will have a bad TA in the first 2 or 3 thousand hours) you automatically replace the pumps, The IPTO shaft splines commonly go bad not to mention the dry clutch. I could go on but you get the point that even with all these common problems (that the 7000 series Allis didn't have) they sold a ton of them. marketing marketing marketing.

As far as Allis being technologically behind everyone else. I can't agree there either. The 190 had an operator platform later copied by every other manufacturer. Right hand side console controls for the remotes, 3-point, draft contol, Power Director, throttle and the optional hydraulically actuated Live PTO. It came standard with tilt steering, turbo, an alternator, dry air filter, and a quiet helical gear transmission. Most did not have all these features. It did lack a differential lock but Deere was about the only one offering it and only as an option (in that hp class). It lacked an IPTO but with the hydraulic PTO engagement you can shift the PTO in and out of gear on the go and you can stop the tractor motion with the PD. It's not ever been noticeable to me that when I shift from forward to reverse that I ever needed the PTO to keep running. The 190 lacked a power shift but so did IH up until the Magnum.

The 7000 series fix everything the 190 lacked. By 74 or so AC had a power shift with 12 speeds vs Deere's 8 speed. The 7000 series IMO had the best built most reliable transmissions and rear ends in the 7010 thru 7080 in their day. The quietest cab, Though they looked small they have about the same cubic feet as the fabled Deere Sound Guard. The 7080/7580 had lots of crankshaft problems that were mostly fixed when you rework the pump to lower the rated rpm to 2400. The biggest problem with a 7000 series is if they sit the shift cables can freeze up but that's a quick fix with a new cable and the updated heavier cables give little trouble. Yet with all that AC still went bye bye and IH (although it's CaseIH) is still around with their tractor and combine lines still intact.

So I don't accept that Allis had a poor out of date product at all or that is why they went down the tubes.

This post was edited by Jack a at 05:34:16 06/29/12.

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