Re: Hey NCWayne

Posted by NCWayne on November 22, 2011 at 21:48:04 from (69.40.232.132):

In Reply to: Hey NCWayne posted by Fritz Maurer on November 22, 2011 at 19:14:56:

When it comes to engine oils I'll be totally honest and say I'm no expert by any stretch of the immagination. I say that not because I know nothing about oil but simply because every time I have run into a lubrication related issue, be it in an engine or a hydraulic system, every question I ask seems to get a different answer from everyone the question is asked of. By the time your done asking the origional questions you typically wind up with more questions than there were to begin with... and still wind up with no solid answer to the origional question.

That said every oil mfg has their own propriatory blend of additives they put in the base oil stock. It's those additives that give the final blend all of the desired characteristics from the viscosity, or multi viscosity, (as well as wether it fails at the higher viscosity or the lower), the EP properties (if any), the detergent/cleaning capabilities, as well as 'emergency lubricants' like zinc, along with a host of other characteristics that the mfg wants or needs to meet the spec their shooting for.

Poke the link below and it will do a pretty good job of explaining all of the differences in oils, additive packages, etc, etc in alot more detail than I can even begin to here.

Now, how all of this would relate to one individual engine type suffering from valve damage, or any other type of damage for that matter, based on not using one specific oil, is anyone's guess without knowing ALL parameters involved in the failures. That meaning the exact formulation of the oil, the alloys used in the valves, and valve guides, valve seats, the strengh of the valve springs, etc, etc, etc. Basically there are way too many parameters to even begin to narrow them all down to one or two and make a diagnosis of the actual cause/causes of the problem these guys have experienced.

Now if I had to make a shot in the dark and make a wile a$$ guess about this problem, I can only think of a very few things that could even remotely cause a particular type/brand of oil to cause an engine to burn a valve. For a valve to burn it has to be open at the wrong time and allow the hot combustion gasses to flow between it and the seat. If the valves are seating properly this should not happen, especially in a new engine. The $64,000 question is what would cause the valve not to seat properly, or in time, that would be oil related? The engine oil has no direct interface between the valve and it's seat so thhere should be no issue at all with the valve actually seating properly, per se. What could be happening is the valve stems are getting hot enough to cause the 'wrong' oil to create a varnish on them. The reduced clearance could then be causing the valve to stick even a slight bit and throw it out of time. This would cause the valve to be out of time, and therefore be open at the wrong time, causing it to burn. I would also venture a guess that this could also be an issue in regard to the viscosity of the oil being too thick and causing basically the same problem when the engine got hot and the oil was at it's thickest (assuming a multiviscosity oil). Too it could possibly be an interaction between one or more of the compounds in the additive package and the alloy of the valve guides, valve stem, etc, in addition to the temps, etc, etc, etc causing a breakdown of the oil film in between the valve stem and the guide. This breakdown of the film could also cause the valve to 'stick' and not close completely or in time causing it to burn.

Like I said I'm no expert by any stretch of the imagination and have never run into a problem like this associated with any one particular brand/type of oil, especially as it relates to a specific engine type. That leaves me with nothing but wild a$$ guesses as to what the problem might be and those guesses are nothing but theory based on what MIGHT or COULD happen given exactly the right set of parameters. That's what makes it all such a mystery to me as to why the problem seems to be more or less restricted to the IH engines and not to others.

As far as oil goes I know everyone has their own personal brand loyalities and that's fine. Personally I get the engine oil I use in my service truck (a Series 50 Detroit) from Lubrication Engineers. I was turned on to it by one customer who has used it in his equipment for close to 40 years and saw how good it was and decided to start using it myself. I also turned another customer on to it because of turbo problems with his equipment. In that application it extended turbo life on his compressor engines from a maximum of 9 months to an average life of closer to two years. In my opinion there's nothing that beats being able to see actual results.

In the end I don't think anyone would intentionally lie about something like this. What I do think is that there are entirely too many different parameters to take into account for anyone but a professional ???? to give any real cause for. And then it would have to be after an extensive amount of testing.

I know all of this probably isn't what you wanted to hear but ultimately I'm just a mechanic who knows what has worked for me and my customers over the years. As a result I've gotten to the point that I might question a product but ultimately I don't question results. Show me those results and I'm sold, regardless of the brand name, price, etc, etc, etc.

• Poke here

Replies:

Add a Reply Name: E-Mail: Subject: Comments: Optional Link URL: Link Title: Optional Image URL: Optional Video Title: Optional Video URL: Advanced Posting Options Email Notification: If you check this box, email will be sent to you whenever someone replies to this message. Your email address must be entered above to receive notification. This notification will be cancelled automatically after 2 weeks.   Advanced Posting Tools   Upload Photo  Select Gallery Photo  Attach Serial # List  Return to Post

TRACTOR PARTS	TRACTOR MANUALS

We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]