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Life after High School (Please Advise)

T

The JD Workmen

Member
All right I am looking for help on what to do with my life after high school. Right now I am a second year student at our local vo-tech in Machine Technology. I have eight National Institute for Metalworking Skills certificates. I have two options open to me at this point in time.
Option number one is to go to a college that offers a four year bachelors degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology which would give me knowledge on CNC machining, master cam, mill and lathe operation. The college is going to cost me about 20,000 a year.
Option number two is that I have been offered a position into a four year apprentice position at a local company starting out at 11 bucks an hour working 50 hour weeks. At this given economic time they said after the four years I should be making 14 to 15 bucks an hour. (I thought the 14- 15 sound a little low but I am not sure if the experience will counter balance this.) A position in this program does not open up for another 8 to 10 month but I would work full time for them in the mean time. At the end of the program I would have my Journeymen’s card.
I want to make the most money I can in this field and I am not sure if college will pay off in the end. Any and all advice is appreciated.
 
I grew up as a mechanic working with my father. I went to work as drafting and electronics technician for two years after high school. The downturn in the 80s got rid of my job so I went to college for electrical engineering. The was the best decision I ever made. I have been gamefully employed and able to make a great living ever since then.
 
my 2 cents worth is,take the sure thing in this economy who knows what is going to happen in 4 years.good luck.
 
I had a similar situation 30 years ago. I chose to go on to college and work part time and summers in machine shops. I got a job after completion of a B.S. Degree with a major corporation. They were more interested in my experience than education (everyone else applying had a similar education).

College is a LOT more expensive today, providing the machine shop has modern tooling and good Journeymen to work with I'd take it and continue my education in the evenings if possible. The machine shop may even help fund it, but they will want to stay with them for 2-3 years after paying for additional education.

It is important to build a network in industry. Join professional organizations, dues are usually minimal for students, etc.

Good Luck,

Bill.
 
Will going to work now lock you into a job for life, one that may not be there in 20 years?

While I sure do understand the desire to get to work NOW I would have a concern that you might be obsolete and have few options later in life.
An Engineering degree would be a grind but it opens a lot more life long options. And the pay should start at $30.00/per
 
For what it's worth. I have two years of college. My wife has six. She makes half again more than I do and has for years. Her dad paid for her's, I paid for mine.
What about four years in the military? They have lots of cool hardware that needs highly skilled care and being in the service doesn't have the negative stigma anymore that it did in my day.
 
Hard to predict which direction will make you the most $$ in the next decade or so. Also very hard to predict what the general economic condtions and employment trends may be. A college degree - of almost any kind - is apt to open doors for you that won't open otherwise. A four-year degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology may be a more versatile asset in ten years than a journeyman's card. If you pick up some basic skills on the CNC equipment as you get the degree, you may be able to move in the directions of management or equipment sales. With the degree, you might even be able to teach CNC part-time as an instuctor in a community college or vocational school environment.
 
what area are you in? personaly in my area i would go with the actual job experience is the best teacher i just left a factory where i worked side by side with people that had more degrees than a thermometer but no job to use it with yeah you can go to college and MAYBE find a job that pays more but how much farther ahead will you be after paying for college? that journeysman card will mean a great deal as far as futer job oportunities. i went to the local vo-tech for diesel mech. but wasnt any decent paying jobs when i got out so i worked the farm then went to a factory now i cant get a mech. job the employers shy away from me because i havent been working in this field for awhile guess to them theres no mechanic work in the farm industry
 
Education if at all possible. Any chance of finding dome "assistance" with tuition, etc.?

I heard it said many years ago that a college degree just "proved" that you were capable of "learning", BUT that piece of paper can be what opens the door for you beyond the shop floor.

Best of luck to you.

Rick
 
Do you have assess to a local community college?
Generally a great way to get some of the basics, find out how to be a college student, and get credits to transfer to a 4 year college. Strongly suggest you talk to community college recruiter.
 
I started out at Boeing as a manufacturing engineer 30 years ago for about what you're aspiring to get to with your other job. My degree is actually mechanical engineering, and I moved on from manufacturing engineering to a design position after about a year. An engineering degree is always going to be a nice solid base for a good salary. And it makes a good jumping off point in the future for an MBA. With an engineering degree, some engineering experience and an MBA, the sky is the limit. Even without an MBA, you'll be making more than enough to pay off your college loans. One downside is that engineering is a tough curriculum, and it can be demanding if you need to go to school and hold down a job to pay for it.

Whatever you decide, good luck to you. Nice to see young people with ambition.
 
Money isn't everything. I went to college for 3 years and when I graduated the only positions open were in the big city's. I grew up in the country, and if I can't walk out my back door and go hunting, I'm not happy!! Yes, I could be making alot more money, but theres something to be said about a simpler life, and being happy where you are. I drive truck locally, and make decent money. I have no regrets...
 
$14 or $15 per hour is pretty light. I was making that as a journeyman tool & diemaker in the early 80's. That $15 is an example of what foriegn competition does to wages. College would pay off better, and give you more options. Personally, I'd stay away from manufacturing altogether. If I had the opportunity to start over, I'd go into nursing, or electrician's apprenticeship. The nice thing about those careers is that you can go pretty much anywhere and find work. And they can't outsource your job. A career in manufacturing will result in you being a professional victim. I don't intend to be insulting, but after 35 years as a tool & diemaker, engineer & supervisor, I recommend another path. Good luck.
 
RAY... SPOT ON with that comment. Community college would be a great transitional tool from high school to college/university. Sadly, VERY SADLY, I did NOT see that back in the mid '60's.

Rick
 
Assuming option 2 is with a cnc oriented machine shop, I would take that. You'll get paid to learn opposed to paying to learn. You may need to enroll in a few things following your apprenticeship such as the master cam but the hands on experience you will get working is (IMHO) much more valuable than a "canned" college course when it comes to trades skills. Don't get me wrong, the college course is probably pretty good but in order to get hired with your degree you will need 3 to 5 years of experience.

You said you'll work 50 hours per week so I would see if the indenture for your apprenticeship will allow you to use all working hours (not just 40/week) toward your Journeyman. I was able to and recieved my Journeyman (including classroom hours) in a little over 3 years. Finishing "early" will leave you time to pick up additional schooling.

As far as your wage in 4 years that does sound a little low but probably does depend on skill level, incentives, etc. With the apprenticeship you will be at a lower wage starting out and should be on a scale where you "earn as you learn". I started at $7.50 an hour and my pay increased 7.5 percent every 6 months until I was at Journeyman scale.

Finally, it sounds like you have a very good start at your career. Don't let anyone discourage you. Sometimes the road ahead is a little crooked or you might take a wrong turn. Just don't stop - turn back and keep going!

Good luck and good skill!
 
I don't intend to be harsh, but do some research. Manufacturing jobs have been dissappearing for decades, and wages have been going down also. You sound like a smart young man. Don't limit yourself to a dying industry.
 
As a Mechanical Engineer, Master Electrician, & Journeyman Tool & Die Maker, my advice would be to go for the degree. In 45 years I was never off work one day. You sound like a guy with a great deal of practical experience and good common sense. The B.S. level degree combined with your experience will serve you very well in the job market. Manufacturing in and of itself is vanishing, but technology is expanding. By that I mean that high paying jobs for people with a High School education are vanishing. Jobs at the high end of the technology spectrum are expanding. You may have to move about the country to remain employed, but so did our forefathers.
 

I'm a mechanical engineer (12 years now) and I say go for the degree. If you worked in the summers or part time in a machine shop while you went to school that would be awesome experience that future employers would love seeing on a resume. If you could do that and keep your grades above a 3.3 or so I think you would do very well. BTW, not all engineering jobs are in the big cities. If you look at Deere (my former employer) they have factories all over the midwest. They are always looking for people with the experience you could have.
 
I did two years at a technical college then a four year apprenticeship at a tool/die shop. Seemed to me two years was ample and I felt very prepared to start work.

The top-scale guys at the shop may or may not help you further your learning. Sure, they are supposed to but it doesn't always happen. They will help IF they like you and IF/WHEN they feel like they have time. It is best to be nice to them as they dictate how fast or far you advance your quest for knowledge.

Teachers don't have the option of not teaching like the guys in the shop do.

Lots of things to consider, only you can sort it all out.
Good luck.
 
Wow. It sucks to be a kid. When I was a kid, times were as hard as this, and it took a long time to get better- what was it guys? from '72-73? in to the late 80's? To some it never ended... I am suspicious of a shop offering you X dollars for X time, even a union program--- sounds like a military recruiter, strings attached or something they ain't telling you. Heck nowdays, paying off student loans in the 6 digits sounds like a bad joke, but if they can help you with funding and work it off..... Is the college close enough to live at home? -get a part time job somewhere close? One thing is a good bet, the college will be there in 4 years, that shop may not be, the old crew might be jumpin' ship... and, safe to say, the 4 year degree can land you jobs in other fields, incase machining dies altogether.. Trouble is the shop/ journeyman thing- if it dies, is just one more line on a resume, the degree is an expensive pain... but... in the long run, machining, metalworking, mechanical engineering, all related fields, not just a limited union ticket.... keep us informed of what you dig up. Good luck. Yep. It sucks to be a kid.
 
Just my 2 cents.
I cant advise as far as a industrial career as I have not worked in the industry.
But I can give a couple observations I have seen of late.

Technology is changing the job market faster than the people can react to it. Locking your self in to only one type of work is a mistake and can lock you out in 5 years

I would recommend that you find a degree or training that can cross a wide range of jobs types. That way you can shift as the technology shifts.

For example for me in 1995 I became aware of this.
I looked around and noticed that every thing was going to computers. That was the linch pin to almost every job.
I learned every thing I could about operating systems, Hardware and networking.
Not a expert on any one area but versed enough that I understood it and could use it.

That has served me very very well across 3 careers so far.

Started as a Underground utility locator. When they went from paper to digital. My computer knowledge Opened the door to a promotion to Area supervisor. After 12 years of that. Competition and other factors turned that career into junk.

The Computer skills plus Locating and supervisory skills opened a door to the Phone company as a High Speed internet technician.
That was great loved it. But as any one can see. The phone companies are not growing. from what I hear in 10 years every thing including internet will be over 25 Gigabit wireless connections.
Not a good sign if your job is maintaining the external network. Should I hang on and try not to be the last guy out the door? Not likely as my seniority was at the bottom.Time to go.

I now work for the power company as a system controller. Great gig will be here until I retire.

Moral is: Don't lock your self into one skill that can be sold to only one job. Find some thing that is similarly used by a wide variety of jobs. Preferably ones that cant be outsourced.
 
55 years ago I did my own thing and quit school. Worked every day until I retired very well off. Your real education starts after your out of school. My sister went to a community collage and retired a multi millionaire. It's your incentive and personality that gets you to where you want to be. Nothing wrong with school,the more the better,but do something that you like and you never have to work a day in your life.
 
Join the Navy. Put the decision off for 4 years while you gain some practical experience, have some fun and garner some help with paying for college. You will get to do and see things you'd never get to do otherwise. Note I said Navy, not Army or Marines. Not many Navy guys getting shot at right now despite 3 wars going on.
That is what I did 40 years ago this year and it has helped me ever since. I went to college afterwards.
 
College is fantastically expensive these days, and you're right to be concerned about the cost of a degree. If you decide to go straight to work, understand that you're entering a career that could very well be a dead end. The few remaining manufacturing jobs continue to be sent offshore. Another thing to consider is what sort of work you'll be doing 20-30 years from now. I have a BIL who is a 55 year old production machinist, and the long hours of standing in front of a CNC machine are killing him.

The MET degree will make you more rounded and open up more career choices. But you need to take a hard look at the costs, including the income you're giving up while pursuing your degree.

How well did you do in your college placement exam? If your math score is high enough to start out in calculus, I'd recommend going to college. I would recommend an ME degree rather than MET, in the long run it's a much better degree. But if your math is weak, you can work on your math prerequisites at a Community College and maybe go with the MET. My suspicion is that you didn't get much pre-calculus math at your vo-tech, and that's going to set you behind students coming out of a regular high school.

If you're considering working full time and going to school part time, understand that this is a very tough row to hoe. People do it, but expect to make some sacrifices along the way.
 
All the advice about not locking yourself into one career path is spot on. The days of picking a job and an employer and staying with them for 40-50 years are gone. I've changed hats so many times in the last 20 years, I've rubbed all the hair off my head!

If you're suited to it, a tour in the military is not a bad idea either. Post a good enough score on the ASVAB, pick a skill, get some education and experience, plus the GI Bill kicks in and helps you out with whatever you decide to do when you get out. And, if you're smart, you can sock away some money during that 4 years too.
 
Landlord is right and so is Tony--here's my experience and advice.
Way back in '66 I graduated from college and had the option of A) going to work B) joining the military abd going to Veitnam or B)going to grad school. Fortunately the army thought I'd be killed because of my eyesight is pretty bad. I had two job offers one with Boeing and one with ITT and a Teaching Assistantship with a college. I took the college program and got a Master of Science degree in high energy physics then tried to get a job. Problem was I didn't have work experience that interested the companies and they weren't interested in paying good wages. Took the only job offered which was with the Navy, as a civilian, and at teh same wages I could have gotten before grad school--so it didn't pay. and 40+ years later I'm still behind my contemporaries.
My advice ask the company for all the information. But in the end your better off getting some work experience. You can still join the military in a couple of years if nothing better turns up or you can't get ahead enough to go to college. Try going to college--night school--you'll know in a class or 2 if you can cut it. It'll keep you off the streets at night.
Think hard about this decision--it's a cross road for you!
 
JD: The guys have given you great advice - you have the benefit of learning from their experiences which is as good as it gets. To add to their wisdom, several thoughts come to mind. Nowhere do you mention the possibility of a scholarship - there are plenty for the taking. I also know there are countless private foundations where funds just sit awaiting useful purposes. You can get listings at your local library. The military is definitely an option - they train well and then you qualify for the GI Bill after your service. I'd attend as many job fairs as I could -talk with recruiters and see what they're offering. Corporate tax rates make it feasible for them to fund bright young men/women with a contractual obligation after school as part of the contract. As tough as times are, this is a great time for you to take advantage of the times. Many will take the easy way out and "settle" when a guy like you wants more. No one here can put themselves in your shoes so it's ultimately your call. Follow your heart and do as much research as possible. Your geographic location also plays a role in this overall process. Obviously, certain parts of the country are more stressed than others. Best of luck. Craig
 
Take the job! Get your technical skills perfected. The cost of college compared to pd on the job training is a no brainer. Big benefit is that you'll have no debt after the 4 years.

Take some night classes in business, accounting, management etc Go to the library in the evenings and read everything you can on the above subjects.

You'll never make any money as an employee. Real money comes from your own business.

Get past your FEAR's (false evidence appearing real)

These are exciting times. Embrace them and ignore the doom and gloom, it's not real! Just fear.
 
Do a hitch in the military and you will be more mature and have an idea what you want to do with your life. I knew when I graduated from high school I didn't want to stay on the farm. My older brother joined the Air Force in 1951 3 days after we graduated. My mom didn't want two sons going to War. I told her to get uset use to the idea since I would probably be drafted. I found a job with US goverment testing engines and vehicles at a proving ground.
I still helped my dad with the morning milking and in 1953 I was drafted. I also married my high school girl friend. When I was discharged in 1955 I was rehired as a returning vet. I also spent 6 years in the reserves. I went from WG-Grade 5 to Grade WG-19 as a blue collar worker. Later on we were converted to GS-9's and later I was promoted to GS-11. That position is now a GS-12. The government also hire machinists and you can look up their pay scales on the web. Look for General Schedule in your area and Wage Grade pay scales. I retired after 43 years. Our daughter was born at Ft Bragg NC when I was with the 82nd Airborne in 1954. Hal
PS: Most of these job require a security clearance and you can not get a clearance if you've run afoul of the law. They will do a background check on you and don't put any thing on your application you can't prove. They will check you back to when you were a child. Minor infractions they may overlook, but be sure to include it when applying since if they find it you will be discharged.
 
If you have good grades some colleges will kick in large amounts of money.Base tuition is $50000 dollars at my grand daughters college.College put in $37000 and she had several scholarships.The college considers parents income.A college diploma will get you a better job.My brother in law is an engineer.He still works for the same company.He still works for them at 74 and doesnt want to retire.The future looks very shakey.
 
Go to college and get a degree. It will open up so many more options for your career that it should be a simple decision. Look at lifetime earnings of a 4yr degree vs not having one. It is extremely significant.

I went the college route and for many years my income (and that of most of my college friends) was not significantly different than my friends who did not. Then, in our late 30's and onward the difference started to open up dramatically to the point where now it is 5-7 times.
 
All advise from the school of hard knocks have been served up and print it off and study what has been written.

First off 11 buck a hour you will be living at home for the next four years. Job is good but you can not set your self in a good area with a family at that wage from the 1970's.

Ultradog said it all in his writing. Now if you move to or living in Illinios when you enter the service what the GI bill doesn't cover the state picks up and you will have some pocket money.

Last thing with out a degree you will hit a sealing and the college boy will run over you for the big bucks.

Off shore has taken most machine shops out of the picture for long time jobs.

Good luck.
 
You don't say what the apprenticeship is for. I have my 4 year degree + 25 grad credits. It's a big investment in time & money today. It never really made me any real money but it kept me working when others were laid off so I could feed my family. Everyone was happy with my education & experience but no one would pay. Used to eat lunch with union electricians & plumbers and they all made out better than me, even in retirement. Of my 4 Sons, all have college degrees, 1 is still unemployed after 1 1/2 years, 1 just went back to work after 1 1/2 years, 1 just got hired full time after a year (with big loan debt), and 1 has been working steady since graduation. If you go to school don't get sucked into the huge loan debt. If they're not fibbing about an apprenticeship in 8-9 months, could be a way to go while getting your college evenings. If you like the work and the company, the journeyman papers will be good to have. Good luck in your quest, blink your eyes and you'll be looking back like me. joe-
 
I would say take that apprentice position with the idea of taking one collage corse at a time in your basic needs for any collage degree of any type and after the 4 years are up and you have a jump start at collage then take the same corse as you are thinking about or if you so desire after getting some experiance change for a different degree. After working at it for a while you may decide it is not for you so why pay for 2 different collage degrees. You will still have the degree but you will also have a work history that will be valuable as it seams that a lot of collage grads cannot get the job because of no work history. If you decide to go straight to collage get a work history while at school even if it is just stocking shelves at the local grocery or flipping burgers but get that work history. From a guy that left high school in 1959 at end of sofmore and before junior year and farmed all life untill lost the farm and could only get a job delievering newspapers and befor I hung it up last year I was spending more to keep doing the job than I was making. I did not have a work history so no one wanted to hire me for any job.
My father-in-law was a pharmist all his life but He started collage to become a dentist for 2 years untill he went in the milatary and after he was out could not get in denistry collage so switched to pharmacy and with 6 totall collage years the first 2 were wasted, would only have paid of if he had gone anouther 2 years and became a doctor but after 6 years of collage he said enough of that. So with all this said get your work history first and then decide what you want to do and from every thing you hear the people that waited till in there 30's all did a lot better in collage than the ones that went direct from high school.
 
Lots of good advice both ways below. Was in a similar spot in the early 80"s as I graduated. Some advice I was given:
Short term you"ll do ok if not significantly better by working rather than college. However, depending on the company and the position/available jobs, if something goes wrong or you change employers, the same opportunities may not exist elsewhere.

As said below, regulations and technology change rapidly. They can quickly turn a good career into a dead end or dying field. (board/hand draftsmen used to be invaluable...).

And last, the more educated you are, the better chance you have to watch out for YOU.
Many years ago as I was trying to determine to look for another job or take my side business full time, an old friend gave me some good advice:
We had both been through the cyclical layoffs before in the industry. As he said, "I may lose a client or project, but never again will one person control 100% of my income on a daily basis"

Therefore, I vote college/higher education or military because it"s not the bookwork I learned in college, but the experiences, and the concepts that have been invaluable. And if you can, work whenever and wherever through college.

Good luck.
 
take the job , education don't guaruntee anything ,, in these phked up Modern Daze, half of everyone depends on the other half to provide a living for them , please always be part of the solution , not part of the problem by going into govm't( yawn )retirement work ..
 
So you are telling him to go to college for 4 more years at 20,000 / year equals 80,000. Then tell him not to accumulate dedt. You must work for the government accounting department.
 
I don't want to start any arguments, but some advice seems dated. The GI bill isn't what it was, and it is an absolute fact working in a factory is a lot easier when youre 20 than 50.
 
Check out a community college. Most of them will let you graduate in two years with a certificated program that employers really like, and college credit that will transfer to a four-year university if you decide to go on.

I am not wanting to say bad things about any educational institution, but a lot of the proprietary schools will load you up with student loan debt and give you a degree that isn't recognized anywhere else. There may or may not be academic credit credit to transfer somewhere else.
 

I'd get the engineering degree (why not BS in mechanical engineering?) and not look back. That's what I did and I can say you'll soon be making $50 - $100 an hour instead of $14 or $15, and you'll be working 40 hr weeks. Your degree, experience, and certificates will be of big value to some company.
 
I had the same exact path in 1972. I am now a fairly high paid Machine Shop Supervisor in a CNC research shop............20-something engineers start in behind me now and in 3 years make way more salary and move up. Go to school, Paul
 
Advice from a practicing engineer:

GO TO SCHOOL, GO TO SCHOOL, GO TO SCHOOL. In the long run you'll make many times more money with a college degree than you'll ever make as a skilled craftsman. In my industry (Aerospace), an engineer right out of school will start at $20 - $30 per hour, and go up from there.

Having some practical experience in addition to an engineering degree will make you a much better engineer. Society and the job market is changing, and the days of being able to make a good living without some sort of secondary education are fast disappearing.

Don't count on working full time and going to a four year school. It's possible, but you'll likely burn out long before you finish. I supported myself all the way through college going to school full time and working part time, along with some financial need based scholarships, and managed to finish a four year engineering degree with no debt (and no help from anyone else).

Why are you going to such an expensive school? You don't say where you're located, but there are state schools and community colleges that won't cost anywhere near $20k/year. I've put a couple kids through college, and I certainly didn't spend that kind of money.

Keith
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:47 05/05/11) All right I am looking for help on what to do with my life after high school. Right now I am a second year student at our local vo-tech in Machine Technology. I have eight National Institute for Metalworking Skills certificates. I have two options open to me at this point in time.
Option number one is to go to a college that offers a four year bachelors degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology which would give me knowledge on CNC machining, master cam, mill and lathe operation. The college is going to cost me about 20,000 a year.
Option number two is that I have been offered a position into a four year apprentice position at a local company starting out at 11 bucks an hour working 50 hour weeks. At this given economic time they said after the four years I should be making 14 to 15 bucks an hour. (I thought the 14- 15 sound a little low but I am not sure if the experience will counter balance this.) A position in this program does not open up for another 8 to 10 month but I would work full time for them in the mean time. At the end of the program I would have my Journeymen’s card.
I want to make the most money I can in this field and I am not sure if college will pay off in the end. Any and all advice is appreciated.
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Machinists / tool and die makers are a dime a dozen, even good ones are looking for work. I've been in the trade for 23 years and the only way to make money is with a degree. Jobs are around but they are low pay and 2nd-3rd shift 7 days a week. In the current climate it will continue to get better but the days of good wages are over for the forseeable future. I transferred into managment 9 yrs ago and have never looked back, the pay is double what you can expect to get as a machinst/tool maker with 20+ years experiance. Like others have said if money is an issue work and go to school at night to get your degree.
 
Recommend a career that can not be out sourced to China or India. Tool & Die, machining, engineering etc isn't safe.
 
Best advice I can give is go to school and get a 4 year degree.......whatever field you choose.
College is a must.........Period.!!!!

To make money while going to college, be a handyman, carpentry, painting, deck cleaning, whatever. it will likely pay better then a BS job.
 
lots of good info here,MY advice since you asked,do both.14-15 dollars is basically minimum wage nowdays,especially for a young person who will pay near to half that in taxes.But the experience gained is very helpful.and your student loan payments are deductable.But, and this may be something to look at,machinists are out of work all over the country,personally i know of more unemployed than ones that have a job.the reason i think is that so many of these jobs are going overseas.Myself if I had it to do over again,would do as someone else suggested,take as many basic courses possible at your local community college while working,and be watching my chosen field for those niche type jobs that require some special schooling that may give me a leg up on the competition for a better job,and make sure i had that training.Its quite simply a different world today than it was for most of us.A college education used to really mean something,now it doesnt even guarantee you know how to read!but to a future employer it makes a difference.Lots of us have been lucky in that we grew up in a time in this country when you could go out and get a job,work hard at it,make a hand and advance while making a good living,simply because of the times we lived in.I dont think thats really the case anymore,i think that to get and hold a good job,your going to have to market yourself just like a company in our day would who was trying to get a contract.to do that your going to have to be (like the saying goes) the best you can be. and that means your going to have to have all the tools you can get..
 
Oil industry will continue to be a high growth industry for this century. If you have an engineering degree it won"t take you long to be in a management position.
 
College most definetly...but not any college> Depending on where you are and how far you want to travel you need an egineering college that also teaches real life technical aspect...i recommend you look into Wentworth Institute of Technology in Boston MA or something similar if you can find it. This type of school teaches the engineering and hands on experience you need (and have started gathering at your voke school). I've personally supervised a lot of interns from this school at our company and all are very impressive in the skills they've picked up. Several are now with us permanently at well above 11 bucks an hour! Talk to this company your looking at and ask about summer positions so you can work and save money and maybe even over time still earn a journeymans' card. Do not waste the opportunity to go to school. Later you will have a family, a house, etc and no time to do it again! Best of luck.
 
For what its worth I tried working full time and going to school part time and its dammed hard. You get home all tired and the last thing you want to think about is class. Especially when you have to take abundant arts classes and all you can think about is "How will this ever apply to me?"

That said if you plan on working for one semester when you do go to college you have a whole different attitude. I worked as a land surveyor's assistant and learned a lot about what I didn't want to do. Which made me much more motivated when I did get into school. When I got out I was making ~$19 an hour and I make a lot more 12 years later...

The college board says the average cost for a 4 year college is ~$7,000 a year. Don't lock yourself into a $20k school thinking its your only option, state schools are an excellent value and in 10 years nobody gives a damn where you went to school its all about what you can do.

Be flexible in school. I ended up with a Communications Media degree specializing in television production. I took a TV class just because I could and realized it was more interesting to me than anything I'd ever done before. I saw that with lots of other people. My wife got a 2 year degree in Physical Therapist's Assistant and is now a Massage Therapist after 2 more years spent in MT school. Don't get a degree just because its the one you started with.

Remember you can do ANYTHING and there are jobs out there you've never even heard of. You won't find out about those other jobs busting hump as the low guy in a shop somewhere...
 
Havng a college degree is very rewarding, not only in a monetary sense but also gives you far more job opportunities and personal satisfaction. I went from voke school to (technical) college to university. I have my MSc degree; moneywise I don't think it was worth it but I would do it again.
Look for a college with a more reasonable tuition fee; 20k a year sounds VERY high. Go to college now, not later.
 
Let me explain something farther to you,the machinists of today,EVEN those with cnc experience,are the blacksmiths of my generation.For all intents and purposes,the machines and operators installed and trained today are as far behind times as that blacksmith.Gone is the day when a guy (or gal) could learn one machine and stay with it.Today the machines being used and especially those in development for all intents and purposes operate themselves.Not only can the ones of today read blueprints,set themselves up with no outside inputs,but they can even tell you if two different mating parts will fit together.These machines, and even more in the future can not only set themselves up but can almost repair themselves on the fly.This means that ANYTHING you learn on a job or through experience today is not in demand tommorrow.you are rendered obsolete all most overnight.While there is still a market for one off parts to be made in a slower machine,because of setup fees,everyday the need grows less,and the competition for these small jobs becomes more.There is without question no substitute for hands on experience..but in the end the person of today who has the skills to run computers,the basic understanding of them and knowledge neccesary to keep up with a almost instantly changing feild are the ones who will prosper.To do that you need college, even though what you learn there will be outdated by the time you graduate,the basics will remain the same.The day of a worker putting hands on a piece of equipment is almost gone.The human workers of tommorrow will be punching buttons,not breaking fingernails.And while everyday the population increases the need for truly hands on skilled workers becomes less,not even in the machinists feild ,but in every feild,even the farm feild.Again my advice,take the job get all the hands on experience you can get,that gives you the understanding of what one of these machines actually do.BUT stay in school,never stop learning,learn all you possibly can,and keep your knowledge base up to date.Otherwise you will find yourself left behind.If you decide to stay in the machinist field,learn all you can about the operating systems of the machines ,which require a lot of computer skills now and will require even more in the future.
 
Humor me and provide some links to these machines that can set themselves up and repair themselves on the fly. I work in an up-to-date machine shop that has very diverse capabilites. While some machine tools are antiquated, most are state of the art and do not come "turn key" to run our parts - they require a team of highly skilled engineers and machinists to take raw material and turn it into tightly toleranced finished goods. You make it sound as if you can feed a blueprint in one end and parts come out the other. Nothing could be further from the truth.

If I was the young man that started this thread I would interpret your reply as "don't bother!, there is nothing in it for you". True, if you don't put your mind into and around it you will get left behind and end up regretting the choice but why discourage right off the bat?It's a good thing that people like you who are intimidated by certain technologies are few and far between. Me? I've got a production robot to program. Gotta go.

Good day!
 
Go to school. Check around for scholarships-they are everywhere especially if your grades are good. Let me tell you about apprenticeships. I work for a fortune 500 company. the largest of its kind in the world. In 2000-02 they decided to outsource all the tradesmen. Two crane riggers had two months remaining to get their journeyman cards. the union begged them to just let them finish then outsource them. NOPE! So company'e are free to do whatever they want. I'm in Michigan and we've been having a one state recession for ten years but having that engineering degree gives you a degrre of flexibility. Where I work if you want ANY kind of salaried position with a hint of advancement you must have or be working on a 4yr degree. Now, granted, there are a lot of bosses there who have trouble shutting the water faucet off every day. they still make way more than me. Myself, i got a 2 yr trade degree, then worked 2 yrs, then went back and got a weird BS degree in MGMT. But I ended up being a mechanic. 20+ yrs. One of the last good paying hourly jobs left in the state. But, whenever some d!ckhead waves his magic wand we're gone and I have no where to go in the plant because I don't have an Eng degree. 15$ hour is only ~30k/yr not good enough. My knees are starting to go from squatting and kneeling so a salaried job looks pretty good now. Pays better with better pension too.
 
(quoted from post at 18:35:47 05/05/11) All right I am looking for help on what to do with my life after high school. Right now I am a second year student at our local vo-tech in Machine Technology. I have eight National Institute for Metalworking Skills certificates. I have two options open to me at this point in time.
Option number one is to go to a college that offers a four year bachelors degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology which would give me knowledge on CNC machining, master cam, mill and lathe operation. The college is going to cost me about 20,000 a year.
Option number two is that I have been offered a position into a four year apprentice position at a local company starting out at 11 bucks an hour working 50 hour weeks. At this given economic time they said after the four years I should be making 14 to 15 bucks an hour. (I thought the 14- 15 sound a little low but I am not sure if the experience will counter balance this.) A position in this program does not open up for another 8 to 10 month but I would work full time for them in the mean time. At the end of the program I would have my Journeymen’s card.
I want to make the most money I can in this field and I am not sure if college will pay off in the end. Any and all advice is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Join the army right away. Don't get married until you've got a taste of life away from home. Sign up for the GI Bill right away and the Thrift Savings Plan as soon as you are eligable (not a long wait) and put what you can away (which will be plenty because you'll be living for free AND getting a paycheck. Don't drink and party your money away. You'll be able to get your degree (as high as you want) mostly evenings and weekends and mostly on the government's dime. You may like it and decide to do 20 and retire with a little pension and free medical (if you have the patience to deal with VA). Spook's right, the GI Bill ain't what it used to be. It's much better. You owe it to yourself to talk with a recruiter. I know a couple folks with Masters Degrees that cost them hardly anything.
Pick a wheeled vehicle mechanic specialty and pay attention to what you are doing. You shouldn't be hurting for work if/when you decide to get out AND you'll have plenty of free services/help in putting yourself on the job market where employers look on a good military record with favor.

Good Luck.

Dave
 
I don't know of any that fix themselves, but onboard dianostic programs are pretty good. With all the electronics on these machines, they really help.
 
Try to get into the Air Force or Navy...do not mess with the Army or Marine Corps, they have too much risk of your being thrown into some HeII hole duty fighting you-know-who with towels around their heads on the ground with hand granades and sling-shots. The AF and Navy know how to do it and save the lives of their personnel, not "volunteer" them. The military will get you education on duty and after duty and "grow you up" in the process. But stay away from ground combat duty. If you doubt my opinions check to see where the casualties come from. With the weaponry we have we don't need to have nearly as many people dying on the ground.
Production and prototype machineing were wonderful trades BEFORE we started having all the "foundry work" done off-shore...now it's the absolute pits..with an sh in place of the p. You might better be an auto mechanic or in HVAC. If you like health care that's even better than any machine shop thing.
 
Any thing medical. My DIL works 36hrs a week and knocks down over $100k/yr. If she would drive to Phoenix, another 40miles RT, she could make $150k doing the same job.

I went SM then engineer(PE). I would never suggest that carrer to anyone again.

T_Bone
 
didnt even remotly say dont bother!where did that come from?I said lean heavily in direction of computers and the operating systems for these machines,,surely even you would agree this is where they are heading.as for them not fixing themselves your correct(today),but how many have backup systems,that automaticly switch to a good one?are you saying they dont exist now?I have right here in this lab equipment built thirty years ago that will tell you whats wrong with itself!the next step, and its already here,believe it or not, is to have the machine eject the bad boards,and even reorder its own replacement parts.one guy in a shop can run multiple machines now,not stand in front of one machne turning out the same part day after day.before long they will actually repair themsselves, why not? but it will take people with computer skills to write the programs AND to keep them running.why have a man setup a machine?their slow ,they cost about 100 times what a machine costs,they get sick,they take vacations,they gripe,or whine with no pay raise,wont work with no benifits.do you seriously dont believe your job is headed there?if not your fooling yourself..how exactly has your job changed over the last say twenty years?notice I didnt tell him not to go into this field,i told him to take the job,,i told him to learn all he could about the basics of the job..on every machine he could get his hands on..without that he's simply another educated idiot..BUT..i also told him to be ready for the future, to make sure he has the skills neccessary to adapt,to make sure hes keeping abreast of changes and the direction his chosen feild is heading.have you never seen a computer check a part,or run a program? how long before some school kid takes your job,all he has to do is make a computer to read diagrams.how many people does it take to setup a machine?modern machines today has cut labor by how much? my just graduated from high school grandaughter is writing the programs to do this now!
just like i told him,by the time he graduates he'll be behind anyway,teachers cant keep up anymore.but like you say,and i agree,he needs to know how the machines work and what they do ,the basics dont change.
 
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