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Young farmer needs haying equipment advice

A

Amy Smith

New User
Hi everyone - My fiance and I just bought our dream 30 acres here in Maine. Timothy and clover as far as the eye can see. We are on a tight budget as we have a wedding to pay for this summer, but we need to make some hay to feed our critters. We have a horse drawn #7 mower that is operational, 3 fat horses and about $3000 in cash to make this happen.

I would love to hear from all you experts what we should buy. We can only afford one old, ugly tractor. We're thinking about a Ford 8N which we can find locally for about $1500 in running order. We just can't figure out how to bale the stuff (round or square) with the amount of horsepower the 8N is going to have. We need some creative solutions. We're trying not to get into a tractor payment, although the dealers would just love to sell us $30,000 worth of equipment.

The baling seems to be the hardest part to get done cheaply. Anyone have any advice for us?

Thanks in advance! -Amy
 
Might be easier and cheaper to hire it out until you can afford some decent equipment.

HTH

Vito
 
I"ve pulled a JD 224T baler with a farmall super C. So if you find a small baler, especially if you don"t pull a wagon, an 8N should pull it OK on level fields.
 
A self powered baler is a good solution. I do not believe 8N tractors will serve well. They are not as good as several tractors that will cost about the same (or so). Massy 135, IH300U or 350U, come to mind. These tractors have Usable hydraulics, and live PTO as usually found options. Na 8N has none, and is underpowered. Jim
 
I agree with Vito. Cash management is always difficult on a start-up venture. Renting or hiring is often the best use of limited cash until reserves can be built up.

Also, here in Middle Tennessee, there'a a lot of hay baling on shares. Usually it's around a 60/40 or 50/50 split. You might find someone who would do it on shares with you until you can afford to buy some equipment.

Good luck.


Tom in TN
 
First, congratulations! Probably the LAST thing you need to buy, while preparing for a wedding is to lay down hard earned cash on a tractor. Save some back to have it done like Vito said. Be patient, save some money, and "maybe" be able to pick up something next year or ??. Finding a dependable custom baler would be my first goal, it"s just not that economical to lay out a bunch of money for haying equipment that will probably need a LOT of TLC to keep going. A wedding should last a lifetime, a baler or tractor can be found whenever. Best Wishes on your future together!
 
Thanks for all the advice so far. We have asked around to several neighbors in the area who hay, but they all have more fields than they can manage. There are hundreds of acres in the area that just get bush hogged every year because nobody wants to make hay. One neighbor did offer to help us hay (he just likes to ride his tractor I think) but its got less hp than an 8N would have, so its not going to run a baler either.

Anyone have any experience with self powered balers? Are they total junk?
 
I started a custom haying operation 3 years ago to service the small farm-land owners in a small rural/suburban area.
I spent:

Farmall M $750
Ih 120 sickle mower $600
Case side rake $700
MF 124 baler $1100

That includes parts to GET everything running, but not the parts required to KEEP everything running. I did turn a profit my first season.
I say if you want to do it yourselves, GO FOR IT!!

Good luck.

Ben
 
I agree hire the hay baled until you can afford good equipment----share baling used to be done here but not many small square bales here anymore. Tractor with power steering, live pto remote hydraulics and you will want a loader on it too---take your time and you will find a good one often at an auction sale. I was at a consignment auction yesterday where tractors were reasonably priced just be patient.
 
The same scenerio happens in my hometown. There are alot of small acreage hobby farms, but very few people have the equipment-time-energy-knowledge to do their own haying. There are a few custom hay farmers there, and they are as busy as they want to be. Still, nobody wants to do a field of less than 10 acres.

All of the BIG hay operators in the area I live in now run self powered balers, not because they don't have the tractor HP to run them, but so they can better control the number of strokes in the bale. There should be no inherent difference between a pto and self powered baler.

Ben
 
My Father used an 8N his whole life on the farm, but he would never bale with it. It just didn't have the power or traction for hills. You need something with about 40HP, like a Farmall M or a John Deere 60, and you need live pto, so you can stop the travel without stopping the baler.
The Ford 8N was great for mowing with a trailer type mower and on the rake.
 
I've used a baler powered by its own engine. A good choice if you have a too small tractor or one without live PTO. Nice thing is you can just throttle down the tractor where the hay is too heavy and the baler keeps running full speed. Downside is the balers are usually (or always) quite old plus its another engine to maintain and keep running. Those old Wisconson air cooled engines could be very tempermental.
 
I would spend the entire 3000 on a tractor. Your going to need one for snow removal anyway the first winter. That will get you a nice 450 Farmall or D-17 Alice or a 770 Oliver. Now you got something that will handle a baler and manure spreader when you get to that point. Rent the hay ground out for now until you save up another 3000 then get the hay equip. You mentioned you have a neighbor that likes to drive his tractor. Does he have haying equip? Maybe you could offer to put your tractor on his equip. and let him drive it. You load the wagons. Help him with his and then he can drive while you load yours. At the end of the day, he got to drive tractor and you both got hay in the barn with no cash out of either of your pockets.
 
We have a Massey 35 that was here when we moved in and have baled with that for years, but now I have a Farmall H and have found it works well for me for baling. They are also very cheap in most areas, but I don't know about Maine. 18 months ago I got an old New Holland 461 haybine at an auction for $176 and put a new bushing and couple little parts in for a total of maybe $220. It cut our hay all last year and was a big improvement over the sicklebar we used to use. I have found that often the prices for haying equipment are lower in the fall and higher in the spring, but not always I guess. Best of luck.
Zach
 
I would agree that hiring the hay work might be a better option, if that is not possible, a tractor with decent hydraulics and live PTO is a necessity. However it doesn"t have to be new, Olivers and Cockshuts had live power as early as 1948 and won"t cost much more than the 8N. Power steering is nice but not required, 3 point and front end loader are not required for making hay, good luck with your decision.

Rich
 
Amy,

It sounds a lot like the same situation my wife and I started out with 34 years ago. We have a small farm and had and still do have horses. My wife and I were 4H leaders for about 12 years and all 4 of our kids went through the horse program in our county. We raised a few cattle mostly for ourselves and sold the extra meat to be able to buy more calves. I bale our own hay with a couple old Farmalls and an old New Holland baler. We cut some hay from our field and do a couple neighbor's fields keeping all the hay and giving the owners 40% of what the hay is worth off the field. They don't raise any animals so want the cash instead of the hay. Of course, you will want to keep the hay. I agree fully with most of the posts here that you have it cut on shares and save your money to buy good used equipment later on. You must not get in debt and get overwhelmed so much with payments when you are just starting out as a new couple. It is hard enough without that over your head. I wish you and your husband to be the best of luck and enjoy your farm as I had enjoyed mine.

Tom
 
I also agree with Vito. This first year with the wedding coming I would just have it done by someone. You have not said how much of your ground is in hay or pasture. For just three horses you should have plenty of hay. I would start at the local feed store, not the chain one the old time one. Ask them if they know anyone doing hay on the shares. If you can find someone to do it on the halves you not only get the hay put up but you get some experience on hay making. That knowledge will help you chose what equipment you need.

As far as tractors. I would hold off there too. A cheap old tractor can just be a money pit that someone else is dumping. A Ford 8n was a fine tractor in 1952 when they where last sold but newer better tractors can be had for not that much more money. I know that some 8N purest will trash me. Those 8Ns are not a good tractor for a novice to start out on. They don"t not have live PTO or lift. The brakes where not the best new let alone sixty years later. No power steering. Geared way too fast in reverse. Example: I would love to drive a Model T car in the July 4th parade but I would not do it in Jan. 20 below at six in the morning going to work. So for the collector hobby guys a 8N is fine but to use for real they are a pain. I know this how?? I had to use one early in my farming life. Owned several since then but not to use.

You can find a later Ford 661 or 861. A MF 135 also. All of these would be much better for you to use. They have live hydraulics and PTO. Much better gearing. You can find them for just a little more than that 8N.

Mowing modern thick hay with a horse drawn mower is tough to do. Clover can make you find/lose your religion. LOL Also it really helps to have it conditioned to dry faster.

A budget of $6250-8500 should get you a good line of used equipment. Here is a price range and some model listings.
Tractor: $3500-4000 (Ford 661, 861 or MF 135)
Sickle bar mower: (good one) $500-1000 ( NH 451, JD 350, IH 100)
Side delivery rake: $750-1000 ( NH 56, 256, JD 894, IH 14)
Square baler: $ 1500-2500 ( NH 67,267,273, JD 24T, IH 37,47, MF 12)
 
You are getting good financial advice about putting up the hay. But there are other considerations. You bought a farmstead to do some ag stuff, right? 10 years ago I bought my little farm not knowing what I would do. The first year I hired out the hay (grass) cutting. The second year I had a tractor and I planted quality alfalfa. The third year I mowed, raked and baled it. The fourth year I had customers and a crew and really made hay :) Now I am working 210 acres and having a ball.
Find a Ford , an 841 or 851 series or a 3000
Find an IH 100 or 1100 9 foot sickle mower
An IH 16 bar hay rake
A new Holland 273 or 275 small square baler
Some kind of trailer or hayrack
You can get all of that for about $4500. You will have a ball working your little farm. There's nothing in the world like the smell of fresh mowed alfalfa. Only thing better is a barn/shed freshly loaded with bales.
Expect to actually make hay on 30 acres. Perhaps 2 tons per acre. That's 60T for the season. At 100 bucks a ton that's $6000 gross hay value.
If you plant better stuff, fertilize, you can get up to 4T in that area.
I say, scale back the wedding, plan a 10 year ann/honeymoon trip and get into your bib overalls.
 
I was in the same situation once, and $3000 went alot farther in the 70s,get a good tractor, one you can do something with, a Ford 800, something with 3 point, buy cheap implements and replace one every year,only 30 acres you could hire it baled or put it up lose the first year.
 
Give someone half to cut bale and store itin in your barn . Keep the 3 grand until you have enough saved to buy some good equipment.You will spend more time fixing and repairing than baling with the equipment that your $3,000 will buy.
 
Life is _way_ more fun when you have a tractor with live hydraulics, live pto, and at least 5 forward gears to pick from to match what you are doing with what you are pulling along. Baling and snow blowing you really really really want live pto. Yea you can without, but it's a miserable deal.

If you are in ag country shouldn't be too hard to find someone to make the hay on shares, he does all the work and gets 50-70% of the bales, you get the rest. That should get you through this year with hay to spare.

Then by next year you'll have time to find a $2500 tractor with live pto, and a $500 baler and a cheap rake that fit your needs today and into the next decade.

--->Paul
 
Altho I am suppose to be a fergie guy... Allis Chalmers made exactly the stuff you need for 30 odd acres, you don't need over kill no mater how much $ you got. The 'CA's' were built with live pto, and side mowers, to do either job without a big hastle. The balers the CA's could run make the 30-35 pound round bales, if you are feeding your own horses, they won't care. Those balers are hard to find, but very simple, no knotter or power sucking mechanisms. A Pin wheel rake has like 5 moving parts, heck, I used a dump rake from the 1870's for the odd corners of my place, those are now lawn ornaments all over the place. Your horses could pull the rakes and even you mower in a pinch, in the light stuff until you get it tuned like the old days. A Wisconson powered baler, like the guys say, have drawbacks, but, if you find one.... ya know, if time isn't an issue, a self powered baler, dump rake, your old mower.. a pick up... you could pull it off. Just don't buy the 9n, it is too limited, like my father said, it was something to buy when the horse died. Don't buy any tractor that doesn't have live or independent power take off, you will need it sooner or later. Keep getting back here with info and more questions...btw, check the Craigslist farm and garden for all the areas around you, or put in a wanted .... when you know what you want... lots of stuff out there sooner or later... good luck!
 
There's no faster way to burn through money that to try farming with something that wont do the job. You end up losing the crop and having all your money tied up. For 30 acres of pretty good stuff you should be able to get a custom operator to do it for you, even if you had to give them 3/4 I think it would be money well spent.

Just a random bit of advice about money spent on a wedding.... nope I'll keep that to myself.
 
I would look for something around a super C or a farmall H if it was me. an H should run a small baler and you can find a sickle mower for it pretty cheap. A rake shouldn't be to hard to find either. Self propelled balers are ok, Never used one myself but i have herd many had a problem with vapor locking the engine. Im actually going to try to get one going this summer myself, should be fun !
 
No offence but without any knowlege about making hay just hire someone to do it and observe till you learn how to do it. Your 8n will bale all knids of hay but you need the rite stuff to do the job. Tons of hay was baled with them and they will still do it but you need experience just hire it done for now.
 
Amy I just saw your later post about there being too many acres of hay and too few to bale it. I think that you and your husband are much younger than most of us on this forum. Ask around and go met a few of the ones that bale hay close to where you live. I am willing to bet that if you and your husband are willing to do a little hard work helping one of these people put up their hay. You will be able to get them to bale yours. Many times the problem with having too many acres to bale is that you don"t have the help to handle the extra hay. So maybe you and your husband can exchange some sweat equity for some hay baling. This also lets you learn more about making hay in your part of the country.

As for thinking about an old self powered baler. FORGET IT. Most of those old balers had Wisconsin V4 motors on them. Most where hand crank start. Real hospital visit makers. Ask just about any of the old timer about trying to start a old V4 on a hot day after it dies while hot. I would rather have a root chanel done without pain killers than try to bale with one of those old things.

Well what ever you do I wish you the best. It seems that you and your husband are getting a good start. Buying land is a good way to make life more enjoyable. Just keep focused on the important things. I will not make any marriage advice other than try to put your needs/wants after your spouse"s needs/wants. If you both have that out look you will have a good marriage. I have been married for a total of forty-two years (Lost my first to the big C after 28 years of marriage) been remarried now for 14 years. Seems to have worked well in both cases.
 
IF you are serious about making this work, get married by the J-O-P and save that otherwise squandered $$$ for the farm/horses.
 
Amy........let'chur horses harvest the hay, ALL winter long. Just "rotational" graze them with ELECTRIC fencing. They will do just fine even with DEEP SNOW. Cost electric fence charger, fiberglass rods and "tape", $200 (cheap) Go shopping.

I happen be a "fan" of Ford 8N's 'cuz of the 3-point lift and almost 400 matching implements; but they are NOT good FEL tractors (front end loaders) but shure beet wheelbarrows, eh?

As fer bailin' hay, they've given you some pretty good advice, save the money on equipment and find a "share-bailer". Local feed store or old time hardware store with bulletin boards. (post yer own wanted sign iff'n necessary) 50/50 split is common for 70# 14x16 bales. ........Dell
 
You"re trying to do everything right away and don"t have the budget for it. You can use 60 year old equipment but you better be a good mechanic because it will need repairs and maintenance sooner rather than later. There is a lot a lot of good older equipment out there but you have pay for it. You don"t need $30,000 but you"ll certainly need more than $3000 if you want fairly reliable equipment. I would try to find someone to bale your hay and leave the rest in pasture. You might even be better off just buying bales if you need them until you have more money for equipment. Your horses well being should have priority over spending a bunch on a fancy wedding. I know a few pretty well off people that just had a simple wedding with only a few guests and not a big fancy gala. They"re just as happy(maybe happier)than people that spent thousands on their weddings.
 
To get a good start in your new marriage 1)cut your marriage expenses to the bone 2)sell the horses and buy cows then you'll be able to buy some decent haymaking equipment and the cows will help pay for it rather than be a dead expnse like the horses will be.
 
I wouldn't go hogwild and pig insane for a big wedding. I've heard of couples still paying for their wedding 10 years after they're married. I was in the Army when I married my high school girlfriend in 1953. I spent $5.00 to pay the justice of the peace and we've been married almost 58 years. Use that money to pay for decent equipment or on your home. You will be glad you did. Hal
 
Here is some information that I don't see that anyone else has given you."Timothy and clover as far as the eye can see" means one thing: Someone has been taking good care of that hay ground!!! Timothy does not last without being fed. Someone has been taking good care of that ground for more than just a year or two, and may have dollars invested that he has not recouped. If you pull this out from under him it could put you in a bad position in the community. If you have not already done so you need to find the person and talk to him. He is apparently a conscientious operator who is committed to making good hay, and could become a great help to you.
 
Hello all and Amy welcome to the world of haymaking! We started off in haymaking about six years ago with no machinery and a six acres piece of ground.It has been tuned and tweaked alot since then. We currently do about 130 acres of grass and alfalfa hay and about 100 acres of straw. The straw is done on the half with the neighbor ( I don't have to worry about planting, combine...ect). We use an Allis WD45(1200.00) and a New Holland 67 baler (500.00) Upgraded to a rubber wheel rake this year (750.) We used a steel wheel rake for the last five.....it was a great rake just sounded like hell going down the road. John Deere haybine model 1209 (1500.) We started off the first year a borrowed a wagon....now we are up to seven wagons. We tried the first year to use a stand alone New Holland baler and it was very finicky in hot weather. I would pass on a stand alone unless it was a last resort. The old New Holland balers are out there at a fair price. All of our machines are old and constantly need pieces and parts and tinkering. I bought machines that were in our price range and have done alot of swapping around,repair, tinkering and such to get to where everything was reliable. Age of the equipment, color, or brand doesn't get the hay in the barn, but reliable does. Enjoy your horses and Congratulations on getting married!
 
I did what you are proposing a long time ago. Adjusted for inflation I came in under your #s by a bit. I needed a year to acquire my machinery.
In my case being able to do all my mechanical work helped.
 
I live next door in New Brunswick. In my opinion, you're too late to get the equipment you need at the prices you want for this year.

I would graze the horses as long as possible on the land you have. I would use your mower to put up as many acres of loose hay every chance you get over the summer. It is hard work but cheaper.

Despite the other poster, you can't graze horse over winter in Maine, they will starve to death once we get the ice and deep crusts. The deer will forage harder than a horse, and eat bark and cedar and fir needles and they still starve up here.

If you want to start putting up quantities of hay, you will have to start watching classifieds and fencerows like a hawk and calling quickly. Look at stuff before you buy, its not all in good shape.

You can get a tractor cheaper than a good baler, a rake is also needed. In my opinion, in Maine, a tedder is an absolute need as well. I can't put up hay except one week of the summer without a tedder, just too wet here.

Good luck with your endeavours.
 
You find a good dependable neighbor that will put the hay up on shares. My tennant does it all, and I get 1/3 of the hay. If I dont need the hay, he pays me market price for my third.

Generally I am not even there when they put it up, then in the fall he looks me up and gives me a check.

Keep your money in the bank, the tractors in the shed, set under the shade tree and drink a cold one!

Gene
 
I started off just about where you are 37 years ago, but I had a lot of farm experience with making and growing hay. Even so the best move I made was to have someone else do it on the shares for a few years until I decided what I really wanted to do and got more experience with making hay in a damp cool climate. Learn from the guy that's been doing it for a while. I made do with some real junk equipment. I am a pretty good mechanic and tool & die maker. Without that I couldn't have done it. Never had a tractor with live PTO(and still don't), but it sure would have been nice. It can be done, but work into it one piece of equipment at a time as you gain experience. Besides you need to spend your first year of marriage doing something besides riding a hay wagon. Congratulations!
 
So Amy... you read my mind... 2 days earlier... saw you CL ad, I hope many others around you did. I'm sure you are.. 'absorbing' all the ideas coming at you here... some are... horse sense... some are just not going to work in Maine, and I'm sure horsey folks like you know it. OK, how far is the nearest Amish community from you? You probably won't be able to buy anything from them, but once you start talking horses and horse drawn etc. you will make freinds fast. The way they farm-hay, compare to the guys on here, is 'labor intensive'. When the time is right-for them, they might come over with a gang of kids, and show you how it's done. Not free, but then you will get the feel of the equipment and the rocks, wet spots, etc etc. Some guys on here are in places that wouldn't understand how a local farmer would refuse free hay, nevermind 50-50. This is a tractor site, so that's the advice you will get, try horse power, or iron age? I forgot the name's of the sites. I hate to say I remember this, a few hours west of you... in the early 1960's, my great grandfather cutting hay with a scythe, a wide wooden rake, pitch fork it onto the back half of a wood wheel wagon behind a model T.... this was after Laurel and Hardy were to old and crippled to pull it.... if he needed help, he pulled out a case of cold Moslon ale. At the same time people were going into outer space... btw, your neighbor has a point about a tedder, but they are not on the market often... a side delivery that goes in reverse and tedds aswell are around, but those have 3000 greasefittings, and if it needs rubber tires... $$$. Yep. You have to go out and make some local freinds fast.... btw, that baler looked OK, and if that dextra had live pto and other wise ok... but then there goes your budget on either one eh??? Keep trying....
 
actually,dont even have bale it.if you dont mind the extra work just cut it with the mower you have,(tip though,its made to run the walking speed of a horse,run it very slow). then just fork it into truck or better yet unto trailer and feed it from there.we fed loose hay most of my life.If you prefer to stack it,keep sides of stack as straight as possible and it will shed rain much better.Dont even need a tractor for this,pull that mower with your pickup or even your riding mower if you can figure a way to hitch it high enough.Build a set of dolly wheels for the front if needed.Depending on the weather where you are,all the hay you need is for when horses cant get out to graze,no difference in dry hay you feed and dry hay in a pasture.Spend your money on something else,like cross fencing to divide area into 4 or more different pastures.Will keep your grazing down to where grass wont suffer if you can keep rotating pastures every couple of weeks to let grass grow back!watch that mower if youve never been around one,never ever for ANY reason put you hand or fingers in guards at any time.it can be setting still and cut your fingers off so fast you dont have time to blink.heres the deal,every piece of equipment or tractor you buy cost you,not only for the initial purchase prices but each and every day you own it,for storage,up keep,etc etc.some of these have a HUGE upkeep cost,that mower for instance,unless its in really good condition,better than 99% of them you see it will take a lot of work and money to get it rebuilt.I am not in any way trying to discourage you I hope you understand, Many of us here started just where you are,just trying to advise.buy the best you can afford,dont go in debt,money spent on old equipment will never be paid back unless you can work your money out of it,and theres one thing that is the most expensive piece of equipment you will ever own,thats quite simply yourself and your family,you pay to keep them up more than anything else on the farm ,use them all you are able!and by the way,youve got horses ,youve got a horse drawn mower,nothing wrong with making those horses work,wont hurt and will actually help keep them in condition!one that will balk at pulling a mower,or to being hitched,will also leave you in the dust sooner or later on a trail ride if they run up on something unexpected.Just start them slow, let them wear a harness a few days just grazing and then move on to something harder.why not let them earn their upkeep,doubtfull very few folks today would ride their money back out of one.
 
I have got two words for you: FARMALL 140!
It has got about the same horsepower as an 8N, but it is far more useful because of its incredible torque (2-14" plow 8 inches deep in second gear).
Plus, it has "cultivision", so you can run a medium size market garden on the side. We tedder and rake our coastal bermuda all the time with a 140. We cut and bale with a 464, but I am sure that if we had the right size sickle mower the 140 could handle it. It should also be able to square bale in 1st gear. Power wise, it is everything and more that you could need. It pulled a wagon that was fully loaded (120 36"x18"square bales) down the road in high gear last year. Nebraska tractor tests says that it is virtually equal in terms of drawbar pull with a Farmall H. Also, a Farmall 140 has a fast hitch, which is like the 3 point hitch your 8N will have, except it is 5 times easier to hook up implements on the fast hitch. As a bonus, while the 140 may be old, it certainly isn't ugly!
Around here (North Carolina), a 140 with cultivators, plow, fast hitch, disk, fertilizer distributor/hopper, etc. can sell for $6,000, but the price will certainly be much less in Maine.

I really hope this will work out for y'all, SF
 
I'd slip off to the JOP and get married and just have a BYOB party for the friends and family. You could buy a decent tractor and goodies for what you blow on the wedding. You'll still be married without the possibility of someone chiming in on the "does anybody know why these two shouldn't get married??". :shock:

Maine sounds like a good place to have a tedder. In your place, if I was only worried about taking care of the 3 horses and puttering with farm work. And knowing what I know now about starting small and picking up as you go. I'd get a decent, diesel tractor with 30-50HP, frontloader would be nice. Good mower (drum mower), tedder, and rake and see if someone nearby does round bales (small squares if you have the storage space and the energy/time to put them up) to run thru and bale up what you put up in windrows. Do that with the easiest/best half for hay and fence off the rough, uneven, hard to get at, or thinner area with a good electric fence. Section it off to rotate so as not to ruin anything and let the horses take care of it. Worse case, find an oldtimer to show you how to make haystacks and put the hay up like that. If it looks like too much for you and/or you don't have a market/use for all the hay, at least brushhog it and keep it in good shape so you can make hay later.

Enjoy.


Dave
 
theres something else you should know about horses and farms,and I hope you dont take it the wrong way.first and foremost there is absolutely no reason or use for a saddle horse on a farm.the myth that all the old guys rode horses to town and wouldnt go any where unless they would ride is 100% fabrication...99.999% of folks who raised and worked horses have NEVER RIDDEN ONE!the heyday of the saddle horse was very short,and was not during the true cowboy days,or the trail drives, as many folks believe.the plain and simple truth is that the years of 1916-17 were the biggest years for the saddle horse industry ever!quite simply because farmers had very good crops, buisness was booming after ww1 and lots of folks had disposable income .A saddle horse on a FARM is a totall liability of no use whatsoever.I grew up using horses,when we got our first tractor we were working 17 head of horses.exactly ONE of these could be ridden,and to ride it you had to harness it.if you tried to ride it without harness it would throw you off and stomp a mudhole in you.it could be rode simply because the old man we got him from was blind,and one of his small kids had sat on the horse, got off at end of row and turned horse around.a horse that doesnt work on a true farm is nothing but a liability.just out of curiosity how many times have you seen the amish actually riding a horse?in our area where i grew up I can recall there ever being two saddle horses.One was the mailrider that carried mail between towns.(it was 30 miles between the towns,this was a two day ride,it was possible for him to make it in one IF he changed horses half way.and he kept a horse at a ranch there and paid its board just for this emergency).a farm was not a ranch, and in all reality very few of the people on even the largest ranches actually rode.wagons were used nearly for everything.and cowboys were hired as needed only and few had full time employment,most were simply day workers.the other saddle horse,was owned by a freind of mine,he bought, paid for, kept up,and fed it with his own money, out of wages he earned by working for neighbors,.its hard to justify economically keeping saddle horses on a small farm even today,and its really hard to make them pay for themselves.even people who keep them in the most part consider them either a hobby or a liability.and not the best investment for someone without disposable income to spare.I know why folks like to keep them ,noting i like better than seeing a good team work or a good saddle horse work cattle,but they are in all reality hard to account for, without them paying for a large amount of their own upkeep with some type of labor in return.
 
For 30 acres the cost of machinery is not worth the investment or headache.

For $3000, you are getting cheap, cheap, cheap machinery that's been used and abused. It will break down. It will die. You will curse like a sailor and wonder why you didn't have someone else do it.

Better off to pay a neighboring farmer to do the work, do a 50/50 crop share, or buy your hay elsewhere and use the acreage for pasture. That will keep 3 horses plenty occupied spring to fall.
 
This is entirely possible on $3000 if you shop around.

You might not get a great tractor in that budget, but it is doable.

You need a tedder...but you CAN hay with out it, just not ideal in these parts.

I looked for 5 mins on local buy and sell on this side of the border:

Mower conditioner: $300

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...NATIONAL-MOWER-CONDITIONER-W0QQAdIdZ271483994

Rake: $500

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...-equipment-Pull-Side-Rake-W0QQAdIdZ271359200#

Baler: $800

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...arming-equipment-hay-baler-W0QQAdIdZ273074665

Tractor: $800

http://halifax.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...-Harris-Tractor-still-here-W0QQAdIdZ252089677

All of the above for $2400 without haggling. Yes the moco is the crappy IH one with the batter board, but it says it works and no 3pt needed, the rake doesn't look too bad and the baler is mint. The tractor has hyd, remote cyl should be possible, and assume that 44 has PTO (not live) It has a loader to boot for the winter and snow! Yes the gear is old, but you aren't trying to make a living with it and this is "yesterdays tractors"
 
Wow - I am so overwhelmed with the response. Thank you all sooo much for all the advice.

Since it came up a few times, we do ride our horses, but they also work for a living. We use our 16 year old mare, a Shire/Clydesdale cross, to plow the garden, twitch wood, haul maple sap and pull whatever is heavy around here. The other two are her 2 and 3 year old fillies. We're hoping the 3 year old will be quiet enough to help mom with the cutting, but we've never actually made hay with the horses before.

Obviously there's no way to bale with horses, but our barn won't be finished by winter, so loose hay seems out of the question.

I think we're going to just have a run at it with the horses and the sickle bar mower, find a wheel driven side delivery rake the horses or a four wheeler or whatever can pull, then let our neighbor do the tedding with his little tractor and find someone to bale it for us.

We have 9 acres all fenced for the horses, so they can graze until October. Everyone keep their fingers crossed that we can find someone to leave their fields to come bale ours!

-Amy
 
Oh! And another thing - our wedding is going to be a pot luck pig roast. We're raising the pig, a friend is roasting it, and we told folks to just bring a dish to share rather than presents. We still have to rent a tent, tables, chairs and buy cups, plates etc., pay the JP and so on. Not a ton of money, but its enough.

We've both helped with a lot of haying our whole lives, but we know its different when you do it yourself. I liked the idea about putting in some sweat equity with our neighbors LOL.
 
you can bale hay with horses if you could find the baler,its been years since ive seen one though.You still would have to pick it up and haul it to the baler.it was always simpler for us just to stack it,and you actually lose far less hay that way than a person would suspect.
 
In regards to the comment about starting a Wisconsin V4 and a root canal. I have done/had both and I would take the root canal any day.
 
a couple years ago a Amish farmer down my way in west ky seen him baling with a ground driven pto jd baler. it was a real rub-goldberg outfit but did work also they ues baler with engine driven,
 
sounds like you got a plan! you really shouldnt need the tedder unless you get your hay wet, weve never used a tedder around here we simply use the rake and roll it again,and the less you can turn it the better.But in all reality ,you'll lose less hay by stacking it in a good stack outside than if it were in bales and you stacked it outside.The difference is a good stack will let most of the rain run off,and what gets wet will have enough air circulation to dry,but bales when they are wet will actually stay wet and get moldy.they are just too tight to allow much air circulation.Bales do let you keep a better track of how much your feeding an animal though.If your going to bale ,start watching around auctions and things for tarps made for a truck or trailers,they are excellent for covering small square bales since they have sides and a top.And they are heavy enough they dont blow near as bad as those plastic tarps most folks use.cover bales but dont cover loose hay stacks.good luck to you and your intended!!,always good to see young folks interested in having a farm nowdays ,theres far too few.
 
well Amy, add 495 to your wedding list. Tell him to forget the casarole dish, just bring that rake and baler... that tractor has a loader, for a few bills? The mower I might leave, the rest would be money well spent. If that tractor did power that baler, it can again for you. You kinda don't want to turn 30 acres into loose hay with out even a small barn, you need to bale it. I would have said a self powered baler etc etc... but for $8oo CDN???? a few hours away? If the tires are good for a while longer.... and since you are going to use the horse drawn mower... you would need a conditioner or tedder, but you would have money in the budget for one... if Ken in NB can bring a nice tedder, invite him to the wedding too! There are some Marris Harris brains on the other forum above.
 
It's great that your horses work for a living! To tell the truth though, if you want efficiency, a tractor will pay for itself against a horse in a year or two. Plus you could always turn your 9 acre pasture into a truck farm. It is possible to gross $3,000-$4,000 per acre per year off of a truck farm (this figure assumes you irrigate in dry periods). Any way you go, we all wish you luck! SF
 
Oh Jack. I hate to tell the world about Yankee rain. The world hates us enough already. From lake Huron to the Atlantic Ocean, almost every summer, just usually almost a lot too much. Don't want to put a curse on it, there are worse problems... now I'm into truck farming, I need it, when feeding hay to cheeseburgers, it was a battle. I think harvestores, haylage, and the big white worms were invented because of the northeast rain we usually get. Eastern Canada may never get 3 days in a row without rain, and the other days aren't good for drying. I did everything I could think of to dry my windrows, and still had mold in the centers of some of the round bales. Amy wants to use a sickle bar insted of a mower conditioner, so no squishin' to be done, and if she was to do loose hay...in Maine? 30 acres times 3 tons? more? in one cut... that's a big pile. we don't have the old west stackers around here. Most used to have a claw and trolley on the barn ridge.... something of the old days everyone was happy to not need once balers came out. some one wanted to know where to find mushrooms? go to Maine...
 
First, your horses are work horses and you have the mower, Then look for a rake-tedder built by New Idea and a No 4 or 44 and it will have been built for the horses. If you were in an Amish area then expect to pay up to a thousand dollars for a good one, non Amish area half of that. That will take care of all your tedding needs as well as the raking. I could get you any parts you would need to keep that rake going along with depending on the make and model of that horse drawn mower. Then do as the Amish do find a engine powered small square baler, They do take off the pto and install new engines or as some of them do have a forecart with an engine on. They fit the balers with brakes for use on hills. And they do pull fully loaded wagons behind the baler hooked to the forecart. If your land is flat you have enough horsepower for that but if hilly then you would need a 4th horse. And for grading a driveway they put a hand type lift 3 point on the forcart that takes a standard cat 1 hitch 6-7' blade. Or if you did not want to bale but put up loose hay find a hay loader and hook it up back of a wagon with a team in front and have a go at it. I have friends That are Amish and they do everything the way I am saying to make their living. And the parts that you cannot go to a farm store and buy and that is all except the cutting sections for that mower they have or can make. What make mower do you have and model and bar length? If it is a 7' bar then you could get yourself a older hay conditioner and pull it with an engine mounted on a forecart and you need that conditioner to make good hay. Without it plan on mowing one day, next day ted, also the next day ted again, possibly same thing the third day, then rake and harvest the following day. I made hay for years and never had a live PTO tractor and never missed it. And if you want to go to tractor power a Farmall H will handle a 7' haybine or a pto baler with no problems pulling a wagon behind. If land is too steep for that outfit then you should only be grazing it. A pull type hay conditioner will only work behind a 7' mower tho.
 
I just seen you said a McCormick #7 mower, that mower if it is a 5 or 6' cut can have a 7' bar put on it if you need it for a pull type hay conditioner. And if you need any parts for that mower I can get them for you and the dealers around will not know what you are talking about let alone have parts. I need to find my owners manual and parts manual for that mower. That mower in top shape is worth $1,300. Had a No 7 that was pretty well gone, that I had in antique machinery display and an Amish friend that is a machinery jocky that I supply machinery to saw it and wanted it, sold it to anouther Amish jockey that rebuilt it, last I seen it he had a asking price of $1,350 on it and it did not last very long. Have other mowers and hay rakes to rebuild for them. I am in Ohio.
 
know what you mean about rain,been in the same shape my ownself a time or two.like I said before though,dont put up any more hay than you could reasonably need,feed hay only if your animals cant get to something else. anyone salt any hay up that way anymore?was fairly common several years ago.
 

After thinking about it.......... Those horses don't need and probably can't handle real high quality feed. If you aren't trying to make a living off the farm but just feed yourself, animals to an extent, concentrate on the horsedrawn stuff. Put up or enough hay for emergencies and let the horses forage like they were designed to do. Maybe plant an acre or two of field corn to cut and shock against bad weather supplement. If you have that much land and don't mind fencing it off (electric?) and rotating some, those 3 horses will come thru fine and be that much better for it. Get you something like that 8N to use as a quicker/stronger horse in a pinch.

Dave
 
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