Circulating Stock Tank Water to Keep Thawed

Spent a lot of money this winter keeping 2 stock tanks for the cattle de-iced with floating heaters. Pretty chilly climate in MN where it might stay below 0° f for days at a time.

Couldn't a guy put a pump in the tank to keep the water moving so it wouldn't freeze? Thinking like a duck that swims in circle to keep his pond open.

A pump would use a LOT less power than a heating element...but could it do the job when its 25 below zero?

Menards flyer has a 450 gph pond pump for 40 bucks. Perhaps an aquarium pump for a 5 gal. bucket for the goats?

Thoughts?

It's a LONG story, but I deal with circulating systems to keep the "stems" of municipal watertowers from freezing.

Bottom line is that water, even when moving, will freeze at a certain point, which is NOT a whole lot below the point at which water that's NOT moving will freeze.

What you need is a REALLY well insulated font that uses a bit of auxiliary heat to "get 'er done", yet not run up the electrifical bill any higher than it needs to be.

(OK, guys, TEAR into my *&& and tell me how it REALLY is, 'cause I'm sure a LOT of you have "been there, and done that"!)

Your idea will work when temperatures hover near freezing but I doubt that it would work in really cold weather where it stayed well below frezzing for days. Even flowing rivers freeze over.

I use a Geo Therm waterer and it uses ground heat plus has a thermostatic valve that adds water to the bowl when the temperaturein the bowl hits 32°F. The ground heat keeps the supply line warm and the valve keeps the bowl from freezing over. if you have enough animals and they use it enough, there is hardly any refil going on. You install it with a a small drain field under it and that"s where the over flow goes. We got down to -20°F and it never froze over. It cost about $400, about the same as most of the heated super insulated heaters. I have not noticed an increase in our electrical bills from the additional water being pumped since we installed it two years ago and this was our worst winter since we"ve been here. I know there is an incremental cost for this but it"s relatively small compared to a resistance heater and the installation cost for the ground heat tubing and drain rock add to the installed cost(~ +$225). The resistance heated waterers around here cost about a dollar a day to run @ $0.06 per kw-hr. Assuming you resisitance heat for 4 months at ~$30 per month, the pay back on the extra installation cost is just under two seasons of use relative to a resistance heated waterer. Of couse if you live in a colder climate and have higher electrical cost, your payback would be quicker.

WELL I think your right.

6¢ a kilowatt,that slays me.I am 35 miles from the Niagara falls hydro power plant and we pay over 13¢ a kilowatt. gotta love NY.Bill M.

Can you keep the water flowing into the tank at a trickle and run the overflow to a drain?

What about digging a fairly long trench below the frost line and running a pipe loop in it. Pump water from the bottom of the tank through the loop and return to the top of the tank. Are your tanks insulated?

That is where a geothermal automatic waterer is nice. Initial cost to install is a fair amount, but once done they are basically cost free. I do have a small heater I plug in if it gets below -20, but otherwise it pretty much stays thawed. If it does freeze, it is just at the water valve, so I heat a teapot of water and dump on it to thaw it. Takes 2 minutes max.

Don't know how many cattle you need to water or in how many pens. Check out the Bar Bar A system at horsedrinker.com. The system uses no electricity or auxillary heating systems. I use the drinker for cattle and horses. Last winter temps got to 25 below zero (F) and was sub zero for days in a row. No problems with the system all winter. I didn't miss chopping ice at all last winter. The system costs about $400 and can be installed fairly easily with a backhoe. Works for me,and maybe will work for you also.

Think I know what you're talkin about. Seen em in magazines but I figured it would be too cold here. Sounds like you have temps like mine. Only have 5 or 6 cattle per waterer. Hafta figure out where to put it.

You mean like the way rivers never freeze over?

I don't think the pump by itself will do a whole lot. Might make your heater more effective though.

Insulation will pay for itself real quick. Don't forget to insulate the BOTTOM. The tank will lose heat much faster in contact with the ground than it will in contact with the air...

We're at 4.5 cents, and get virtually all our power from hydro. But we have to buy enough "green" power to make up 10% of the power our public power system sells.

What could be more "green" than water flowing by, and you capture some energy from its movement, with no pollution of any kind? So why isn't hydropower "green"?

Because The Annointed One simple decreed that it isn't. If hydro were green, we wouldn't have to buy any of their precious wind or solar, and what's more, we could sell some of ours to California and they could count it against their green requirement.

Heaven forbid we do something that makes a little sense. . .

Running/moving water won't freeze?
Here in Michigan our waterfalls freeze!
The rivers freeze, some freeze from the bottom on up toward the top.
When fresh water gets below 32 degrees it starts to get hard.

We use a floating heater in our 100 gal. tank and had that problem too.
I added a plywood cover with a 18" hole in it for the animals to drink.
No problem this past winter ( I think it held the heat in) also the waTER WAS A LOT CLEANER.

I don't know how big your stock tanks are but for our horses I built a plywood box insulated with 1" styrofoam all around and built a lid with an opening large enough for them to get their mouth in (actually it's too big 'cause two of 'em can both stuff their noses in there and drink) and use a 10gal "muck bucket" for holding the water. I heat that with a heat tape, the type you would use for keeping your downspouts clear etc.
It only ever got a skim of ice at around 30 below which they had no problem breaking through. It does not use much for power.

There are also some interesting designs online for solar heated stock tanks.
http://www.builditsolar.com/
If you built something that was well insulated you might even be able to bury a coil of pipe below the frost line to circulate water through and use it to pull some heat from the ground below. Kind of a poor man's heat pump.

I just thought a small enough amount (90 gallons or so) and moving fast enough...maybe it wouldn't freeze. Can't blame a guy for going out on a limb even if I sound kinda simple.

Yep,,,Your looking for spring creek ind. at Taler nd,,,Mines a home made one and it works good,,,My emails open so contack me and il fill ya in

That's a good place to start. Thanks for the tip.

Don't feel bad 'cause a few of us around here sometimes run off at the mouth a bit!

Circulating water requires the water circulated to be above freezing (obviously) if the tank were insulated with 2" of thermax Isocianurate foam board (under and sides) a small heater would keep the water thawed. The heat loss through the tank to air and ground cannot be overcome by motion. Ducks Etc. circulate unfrozen water from the area under the ice. Jim, a Minnesota resident with frost this AM and snow a comming. Jim