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May have goofed by buying a 20 ft 14k trailer.

Geo-TH,In

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
Some one gave me the advice that I can't get too big of a trailer. So I bought a 14k implement trailer. Empty it feels like the truck is getting kicked in the butt. The trailer weighs around 3100 #. Very little tounge weight empty. So I loaded it with a small tractor, around 3100# and some sod, perhaps 2000+. Compressed the rear springs on my 1/2 ton 1 1/2 inches. This would give me a good ride with my old 7k trailer. The truck is very stable, however the trailer is still kicking the truck in the Butt!

The trailer is a new sure-trac. Open for any advice on how to keep it from feeling like I'm getting kicked. BTW, I'm NOT BUYING A BIGGER TRUCK!!!

Thanks, George
a37445.jpg
 
Get a set of good air bags for the springs and a set of heavy duty rear shocks. Will stiffen the rear end up a lot.
 
Back the tractor on and use a weight distribution hitch.
Hope there is one powerful set of 4 wheel brakes on that trailer.
b.t.w. you can't cheat the laws of physics. Big trailer = big truck.
Try not to kill anybody.
 
WACP, It is not a bouncing problem, it is a Kicking problem, its like someone is bumping into the back of you.
 
I know, I know,

But you have wayyyyyy more tail than dog. Not to mention you"re using a receiver hitch?

Same as draggin" that load with a Tahoe; same darned suspension set up.

Allan
 
Weight distributing hitch. Your manual would tell you the same thing as you are over the straight hitch pull rating of the hitch and truck.
 
I think that's a pretty nice trailer. Looks like you need this in the front though. It's for sale and the most powerful and fastest truck I've ever been in.
dually.jpg
 
The truck is TOO SMALL. Simple physics. Beg a friend to bring his 2500 Heavy Duty and go for a ride and see for yourself.
 
You can"t fool Mother Nature- you"re trying to pull with too small a truck. Weight distributing hitch and stronger springs/bags will help distribute the load, but won"t help with "getting kicked in the butt", because the tail is wagging the dog. Too small a truck, and probably underpowered as well.

Don"t know how law enforcement treats these things, because I haven"t owned a half ton in 30 years- do they look at the load rating of the truck, then weigh everything, and write an appropriate overweight ticket? Somebody on the board probably knows.
 
Most F150's would be fine with a WD hitch, as long as you've got the V8. Inlaws tow a 9000 lb bumper pull with their 4.6L. Won't win any races but pulls fine. I've pulled a similar trailer to yours with similar loads and it was fine.
 
First thing when ever we haul tractors on the bumper pull trailer we back the tractor on and you also need to put your tractor rear axle between your trailer axles or just a little bit forward of the center of the trailer axles. I hate bumper pull trailers but it can be done are 7410 weighs over 16,000 lbs and we haul it behind the dodge on are triple axle bumper pull if the gooseneck is busy.
 
George,
My Grandfather bought a new gooseneck years ago that did that. Took it back several times and they checked alignment and everything and said nothing was wrong. I think they even pulled it with their truck and said it didn't do it.
Few years later he bought a little bigger one and it didn't do that. Never understood how it was doing just like you describe, like someone bumping you or surging back and forth.
I know there is a lot of difference in gooseneck and tongue pull but that is what happened.
 
You may have something with the axle placement. Everyone here seems to miss the part of the post where I say the problem also exists even when the trailer is empty and it only weighs 3100#. I also have a 10k dump trailer that empty weighs 2700#. My little dog, truck, can very easily pull the trailer loaded with dirt and have no kicking. The ride is very smooth and very stable with the receiver hitch. I've carried the same load posted on my old 7k utility trailer without kicking. I didn't realize that I too was going to get a kicking for making this post. My truck may not be rated for pulling 10k, but it can handle it very easily and safely. Plan to take the trailer back to the dealer and see what he thinks.

Thanks to all.
George
 
It's one thing to risk your own neck, but taking a rig like that on a public highway and risking the life of everyone around you is a different matter. If you don't, as you state, want to buy a suitable truck, get rid of the trailer and hire someone else to haul your equipment. You're setting yourself up for a tragedy.
 
Lookin' like a two trip trailer in the picture. Lose the stuff in front of tractor and turn around the tractor as stated and run 60 pounds of air in the rear tires when loaded. Make the rear tires black and round. What is the tools boxes on the truck-log chains?
 
I would agree that the best fix would be a bigger truck but you have the tractor too far back on the trailer. Experiment with weight distribution. Measure your bumper heightbefore loading. and move weight forward or back until you find the tongue load your truck is happy with. Measure the bumper height now. This will give you a ballpark to work with. After you have used it awhile you will get the feel for it and know how to balance the load so it doesnt buck you so much.
 
Problem is that it's not a goose neck.Trying to haul that much weight with a bumper hitch trailer never works.Trade it as soon as you can before you kill yourself and others.
 
If you are determined to use that truck and that trailer you need
1) 15k Wt distributing hitch with the heavy torsion bars, 2 5/16 ball
2) Monroe Stabilzer shocks. The ones with the coil springs on them
3) Hellwig spring overload kit.
4) Trailer brakes on both axles.
5) Governed engine to keep you under 55 mph :)
 

Dont't know why the trailer is pushing the truck when empty, unless it's like the other poster said, the trailer axles are too far forward. As to that load pictured, it's obvious too much weight is behind the back axle. I agree that the tractor should be turned around and the rear wheel of the tractor placed forward of the front trailer axle. If that make the bumper go down too much, put the tractor rear even with the front axle. If that dosen't make it pull better, then I'm stumped. BTW, there's nothing sliding in the hitch assembly is there?

KEH
 
Sorry about the "kickin'" you're getting, but you kind of set yourself up for it when you said right out front that you will NOT do the very thing that's needed to solve your problem. Pretty much like someone with lactose intolerance complaining about the symptoms, but ending with "By the way, I will NOT give up my ice cream, because I really like it. What else can I do?" Well, nothing, actually. . .

I seriously doubt that the axles are misplaced on the trailer- its a commercially produced trailer, not a home brew, and I'd be very surprised if it wouldn't work fine with a bigger truck. I endorse what someone else said- borrow a bigger truck, and see how it pulls.

On my one tons, the ideal tongue weight is about 2 inches- that is, I have a stick with the level of the hitch, unloaded, marked with a big black line. I lean the stick up against the back bumper by the hitch, and when I put a tractor on the trailer, I watch the stick, and pull forward with the tractor until the rear of truck has gone down about 2 inches, according to the line on the stick. It pulls like a dream.

I think having the proper tongue weight pretty much takes the axle location out of the equation. But it doesn't do anything about having too light a truck in front of too heavy a trailer.

I built a house some years ago, and ordered 30 squares of cedar shakes. Took my trailer over and parked it at the shake mill. I was flabbergasted when I went after work to pick it up- they had put all 30 squares (150 bundles), soakin' wet, on one load! Must have weighed 15,000 pounds, plus the trailer! Of course, everyone had gone home, so no way to unload half of it. Being young and foolish, I decided to "give it a try". Chose a route with minimal hills, but there was one big downhill shortly before my house. I braked the truck as hard as I could coming down, and when I began to jack-knife, would use the trailer brakes manually and ease up on truck brakes to straighten out. By the time I got to the bottom (and a stop sign), I was glad to be going only 10 MPH or so (despite all my efforts to stop). Just rolled right through the stop sign, luckily nobody coming, and made the turn. Got home with nothing busted or bent. And in the innocence of youth, said to myself, "Well, that worked out alright."
 
When I was in sales, the most consistent mistake I saw people make was underestimating the capacity they needed in a tow vehicle.
 
Hello Geoege Marsh,

From the picture, weight distribution is really a problem.
2000 Lbs. of weight so close to the hitch.
WAY too-much tongue weight even with the proper hitch.
Put the tractor real wheels in the center of the axles, and you may fit the sod in the back.
It has to be better than what you have now.
Measure the tongue hight before and after,

Guido.
 
not enough tounge weight plain and simple you even state that when empty theres very little tounge weight and when you loaded it you didnt get enough weight up front try taking the tractor off and leave the sod where it is i bet it works better
 
Hello Geoege Marsh,

From the picture, weight distribution is really a problem.
2000 Lbs. of weight so close to the hitch.
WAY too-much tongue weight even with the proper hitch.
Put the tractor real wheels in the center of the axles, and you may fit the sod in the back.
It has to be better than what you have now.
Measure the tongue hight before and after,

Guido.
 
The tractor alone is more than enough load for one trip. Lose the other stuff and make another trip if you have to.

I have a similar trailer and have pulled it both with my '85 F150 and '90 K3500. Usually my heaviest load is a Fordson Major with post hole digger or 6' rotary mower.

I now try to avoid using the F150 because it is bending the pickup frame. The one ton pickup handles the load easily.

Like others say, you can't defy the laws of physics and not expect to pay a price for it. My advice is to buy an old beater HD pickup to pull your trailer. Your 1/2 ton pickup is too new and too nice to abuse in this way. IMO, 1/2 tons are not made for serious hauling or towing anyway.
 
Trailer looks fine. Axles should be centered about 60% back from the front. If it's kicking you empty let some air out of the tires. If I run the full 80psi in my trailer it rides rough. I let the air down to about 40psi with a light load and air them up when I get heavy.

Learn the characteristics of your trailer. When mine has sat for a while the tires develop a flat spot that take a few miles to soften up. If it's cold out they ride rougher/stiffer than when it's hot.

It may be that your receiver/hitch components are loose. Check that out. They also make a hitch the has a rubber insert, (internal where the pins goes through the hitch), that can cushion things a little.

Learn to balance your load. Too much forward and the tongue weight abuses your truck, squats the rear end and affects ride quality. Too much weight too far back is flat dangerous as the trailer will start fishtailing. You'll lose control. A weight distributing hitch wouldn't hurt.

Do you have brakes on the trailer?? you should!!! Make sure they are working. If you have an electric controller set it up a notch or two. If hydraulic surge brakes get a pro to adjust them for you. I have mine set to come on just slightly ahead of and heavier than the truck brakes. I once had a brake controller that wouldn't adjust very well. It activated too hard too soon and would let off fast enough. I got rid of that one.

If your not going to a bigger truck, don't over load the trailer,slow down, and use common sense.
 
if you have a ball hitch insert. you could try the r-v equalizer hitch add-on set up. might help weight on tongue and give a little smoother ride. my goose-neck feel about the same, just the curse of the combo.// one idea, have the tires been balanced? truck-trailer combo arguments, i leave for you and your friends.lol
 
If your trailer is kicking as you say I would check a few things:
Correct ball size? (Very important as there is a lot of play between 2" ball and a 2 5/16" Coupler not to mention dangerous as all get out.)
Trailer brakes adjusted and working correctly?
Surge Brakes or Electric?
If surge there is not a whole lot you can do to adjust them.
If electric what controller are you using?
A good controller will have a boost function to give a bit of additional braking as soon as you touch the pedal. This keeps the hitch under tension and not kicking you as you stop. The trailer should be stopping its self as well as doing part of the truck braking; once again keeping things stretched out with no slack on stop or start up. No slack no kick.
Light tongue weight is not that unusual with a tandem axle trailer you may find that you have to have a high hitch or have ballast on the trailer when empty to stop the bouncing of the hitch when pulling it empty.
 
what is the GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT? open your door and see what it shows for it, then go and weigh it all, if your over then you are over,
 
George,
I can't tell from your picture, but some bumper hitch trailers are prone to bump surge if they are not level, which is what I think you are experiencing. It may occur with bump surge prone trailers any time, empty or loaded, that the trailer is not dead level. One of five bumper pull trailers that I tow is so noticeable that if I am going over five miles, I will adjust the hitch to level it before leaving. It is a factory built 7'x 18' 12,000gvw tandem axle trailer with ST 235-85-16 load range E tires that I tow with a 93 Dodge D350 dually diesel that is in excellent shape. Once I pick up
a load, I level the trailer again to keep from getting beat up. Once level within 1/2", measured bottom of deck to ground front and back, it pulls great. If you try to pull it 4" high in the front you are in for more of a beating than I want.
 
There is no reason that truck shouldn't handle that load. from the photo your truck looks like its sagging hard but 1.5" of sag on a 1/2 ton truck tells me you barely have weight on the tongue, I'd pull that little backhoe up a little further and see what happens. Not sure which tires are on that trailer but going from a 15" to a 16" tire you will notice a difference, I do atleast.
 
The tires on your truck might be as much at fault as the great ideas below. Mushy rv like tires with weak sidewalls will let the trailer direct the traffic. Stiff sidewall 8 or 10 ply rated tires front and rear will make dramatic differences in drivability. Find a friend with compatible bolt circle wheels with real truck tires and give it a try. I also recommend a rear sway bar upgrade, and the coil over HD shocks. Keep all loads as centered on the trailer as possible, not stretched out to the ends. The polar moment of the weight acts like a barbell (hard to pick it up and make a 180 turn, compared to the same weight in the center of the bar, much easier to pivot. Jim
 
16 inch tires. I had a tail-gate party. Put 3 men, 800 pounds, on the tail-gate and they caused the springs to compress 1 inch. 1 1/2 inches means I have about 1200 lb tounge weight. I adjust the location of the tractor to get the tounge weight I want. When the trailer is empty, I'm lucky to get a 1/4 inch rear spring compression. What most of you don't get is the truck is very stable, the brakes are electric and I can adjust them to stop on a dime. No safety issues like some of you experts think. My only accident I've had was 50 years ago when at age 12 I wrecked a Moped. The kicking is a pain in the butt, not a white nuckle driving experience. I'm thinking there may be some play in the trailer hitch. The ball is a new 2 5/16 reese ball. The truck doesn't fish tail, go up or down, it just kicks. Never had kicking with my other trailers.
 
I cannot comment on the kicking. Your truck looks undersized for that big of a trailer but that has also been covered.

On my Expedition the standard tires started developing cracking in the sidewall. I took it to my friend who"s business is tires, he said my trailer loads were too great for the tire ply. I went to a higher ply, either 6 or 10, cannot recall exactly. That solved that problem. Paul
 
I don't understand what you mean by 'kicking" . I hauled a tractor last week, I swear I felt every crack and heave on the asphalt roads, jerky, back and forth bumps. Once I got on the main concrete highway-no more bumps and I had smooth sailing.
 
I had the same truck and a 20ft trailer with the same problem.Chevrolet sells an overload spring
that bolts to the frame.When you apply a load the spring rest on the mount and will only let the truck sag so much.
 
George a lot of those equipment trailers are built for bobcats. I have one. Those bobcats are short coupled and you can pull it on the trailer up front and be ok.

Some of your pulling problems are also because of the short wheelbase of your pickup. I used to pull a 22' travel trailer with an exploder. The equilizer hitch kept it under control. Pull it behind a regular pickup and it pulled just fine. The long wheelbase helps even out some of that tail wagging and so will an equilizer hitch with anti-sway bar. Good luck. I'll keep my eyes peeled for you and give you plenty of room. Even after you get your load balanced, don't drive it too fast with that short wheelbase pickup. Even a pothole can start it swaying. And you can't drift back and forth driving with one hand while you are pulling it. Keep it dead center of road.
 
Is the trailer fairly level when hooked up? I've seen lots of trailers where the owners didn't want to buy an adjustable ball mount to properly level the trailer. Even in your picture, it seems like the tongue should be lower with the sod on the front of the trailer.

Your truck is kind of light for pulling that big of trailer. 1/2 ton springs are designed for a smooth ride when empty. 3/4 ton springs ride much rougher. Putting helper springs and/or air bags on the truck might be all that's needed to fix the problem. Contrary to popular believe, not all trailers are created equal even if they're factory built. The general rule is 2/3rds back for the axles(center) which may or may not work depending on what a person is hauling. Better trailers are engineered using a mathematical formula for figuring out proper tongue weight for the most common intended use of the trailer. It's highly possible your trailer used a standard measurement that didn't allow for the small beaver tail on the back. Measuring and checking to see that the axles on the trailer are square and aligned would be a good idea. You could even look and see if the tires are wearing funny. Your new trailer is probably a lot heavier than your other trailers and has heavier suspension too. That could cause the kicking. The trailer isn't much lighter than the truck and with the stiffer suspension, you get the bucking. Rubber torsion(Torflex) axles help a lot in this regard and are maintenence free to boot. They act like independent suspension for each seperate wheel. I have them on my 16' 14,000 GVW trailer and it is night and day better than having springs. My dad hauled trailers for years and he couldn't believe the difference the Torflex axles make. You hit a bump, or dip in the road, and the trailer bounces once or maybe twice and smoothes out quick. Kind of like having shock absorbers. A trailer with springs will keep bouncing for quite a while after hitting a bump or dip in the road. BTW, your trailer isn't good for a 14,000 GVW. The white spoke wheels aren't as strong as the basic steel wheels. The white spokes are good for about 10,000 lbs. To get a true 14,000 rating you also need the bolt in valve stems on the wheels, not the pop in type.
 
And people wonder why the DOT's throughout the country are cracking down on the 10,001 to 26,000 class truck/trailers. This is a perfect example of why that crackdown is occurring.
 
Ultimately, you are trying to move more weight than a 1/2 ton is designed/intended to move. There is no denying or arguing that.

If you refuse to do anything to mitigate the circumstances, then you are simply going to have to live with the consequences.

Reduce the load. Get a bigger truck. Helper springs. Air bags, weight-distribution hitch.... Any of these things will improve your situation.

BTW, your stock Chevy receiver hitch is only rated for 500lbs without a weight-distribution hitch. It's only rated for 1000lbs WITH a "WD" hitch.

You yourself have admitted to the tongue weight being at least 1200lbs... You're going to have to do SOMETHING.
 
I believe your issue may be with the ball you are using on your receiver. I can't state what the problem is, but we have several hitch inserts around the shed and you grab whatever is available. There is one insert with a 2" ball that no matter what vehicle it is in or what size trailer is on it with whatever size load, it still "kicks" as you say.
I played around with it one day and you can actually move the tongue of the trailer around and make it "kick" with just a couple guys shaking the front of the trailer. It is always the last insert chosen because it is simply annoying while driving.

Just a thought.
 
George,

I do haul exactly your set-up at 11,000lbs with a 3500 and it is too much. Truck says it can handle it, but I am working towards a gooseneck or a dually.

The trailer is pushing you, as many others have said below.

Rick
 
This is just a guess......but I have heard of certain axle to axle distances that will cause a kick when you are hitting concrete splices or pavement bumps. There is a harmonic at work as each axle crosses the bump. I have heard of semi truck drivers avoiding certain axle to axle setups as they will always be hitting the joints and bucking at a bad time.
 
I called the dealer I purchased the trailer from and he didn't see a problem with my truck and trailer. I took my truck, trailer and tractor to a local RV dealer and he didn't see any problem with my truck pulling the 14k trailer either. A 10K trailer would have only been 300 pounds lighter than a 14K. As some had mentioned, the RV dealer also recommended a weight distribution hitch, which I purchased and it helped a lot. So thanks for those who recommended a weight distribution hitch.

There is no way that I'll haul much more than what is shown in the pic. The key to a smoother ride will be finding the sweet spot, the placement of my different tractors and 5k lawn roller. The new hitch helped the ride too.

I wanted to know what size plates I should buy, so today I loaded the trailer with 2 skids of sod and the tractor. Located the tractor a little more forward and the sod a little more backward. The weight hitch had the truck almost level. I'm guessing the truck was supporting 1000+#. Stopped by the neighbors and weighted the trailer. Only 6900# on the wheels. Going to purchase 9k plates tomorrow.

I stopped by the RV dealer after I got the trailer loaded and had him check out the hitch he sold me. Asked him if my truck and trailer was safe and he said yes, I shouldn't have any problems. He did warn me however to watch out for Buicks. I asked him why? He said that most of the big motor homes he sells is to very old people who shouldn't be driving, drive Buicks:) I told him I would stay clear of old people driving buicks.
 
I have had your so-called trailer kicking when hauling a little skid steer on a 20 ft bumper pull with a 15000 GVWR F 450. It is all about the trailer balance and tongue weight.
 
You don't get out much do you. On those occasions behind the wheel. It's with an overloaded truck which gets kicked all aver the left lane by the trailer. As you backup traffic by driving under the speed limit trying to hold the unbalanced abomination on the road.
Chev division is still angry to this day with Buick division. Four years running Chev had nothing faster than the TI V6 GN until the 1990 four valve Corvette was introduced. Then Pontiac division put the Buick GN engine in the 20th anniversary Firebird and ran 14.2 . The 231 TI V6 was still the engine to beat until the LS small block was introduced in the late 90's.
Then we could discuss the GNX than ran 13.5 stock? Or the 2011 European TI V6 AWD Buick?
Buick division is still around while Olds and Pontiac are gone.

Please park your widow maker until a professional patches up your undersized truck. or until you purchase a proper tow vehicle. You can't cheat the laws of physics.
 
I think you have the right idea with harmonic balance, axle placement and finding the right place on the trailer to place the loads. Another person also mentioned the type of axles. I can live with the new hitch and safely go 55 without having white nuckles.
 
I see this type of dangerous overloaded set up more often than I would like to. Sometimes taking the back roads, sometimes right out on the main highways. I try to steer clear of them as it is an accident looking for a place to happen.

As long as there are people that ignore vehicle weight ratings and the laws, there will be jobs for the DOT and insurance companies.

Why some drivers think they can hook the Titanic behind a motor boat is beyond me. Is it some kind of "entitlement" or something?
 
A regular cab 1500 truck has neither the strength to take on such a load, nor the wheelbase. An extended cab with helper springs will only give the impression that all is well, but you'd still be unsafe. In Ontario you'd need a commercial vehicle operator registration because you're over 10k gross. Not sure about your state, but that would be a hefty fine up this way without that CVOR.
My F350 crew cab feels like the tail is wagging the dog sometimes, and that's with a 10k trailer hauling a 7000lb tractor.

Just my two cents
Jay
 
10,000lb+ trailer to require a Class A license.
cvor required if your trailer wheels put more than 6173lbs on the ground.
cvor required if your truck weighs more than 9918lbs.
cvor required if truck and trailer combined weighs more than 16,095lbs.
Farm and comercial plated vehicles to comply with cvor rules. Motor homes, house trailers and "personal" vehicles are exempt.
 
I guess Buick is today's Rambler. Back in the day, we were told to watch out for old men wearing a hat and driving a Rambler.

Guess I'm getting there- Don't wear a hat (at least in the car), but that ol' Park Avenue is sure smoooooth! And gets 30 MPG on the freeway, 23 in town!
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:45 04/14/11) I called the dealer I purchased the trailer from and he didn't see a problem with my truck and trailer. I took my truck, trailer and tractor to a local RV dealer and he didn't see any problem with my truck pulling the 14k trailer either.
Click to expand...

Of course the trailer dealer saw noting wrong with it... He'll tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. After the sale, he's got your money so he'll tell you what you want to hear to make you go away.

Don't even get me started on RV dealers. They'll hook a 9000lb travel trailer behind a Ford Fiesta if they can convince the driver it's a safe combination.
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:45 04/14/11) I called the dealer I purchased the trailer from and he didn't see a problem with my truck and trailer. I took my truck, trailer and tractor to a local RV dealer and he didn't see any problem with my truck pulling the 14k trailer either.
Click to expand...

Of course the trailer dealer saw noting wrong with it... He'll tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. After the sale, he's got your money so he'll tell you what you want to hear to make you go away.

Don't even get me started on RV dealers. They'll hook a 9000lb travel trailer behind a Ford Fiesta if they can convince the driver it's a safe combination.
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:45 04/14/11) I called the dealer I purchased the trailer from and he didn't see a problem with my truck and trailer. I took my truck, trailer and tractor to a local RV dealer and he didn't see any problem with my truck pulling the 14k trailer either.
Click to expand...

Of course the trailer dealer saw noting wrong with it... He'll tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. After the sale, he's got your money so he'll tell you what you want to hear to make you go away.

Don't even get me started on RV dealers. They'll hook a 9000lb travel trailer behind a Ford Fiesta if they can convince the driver it's a safe combination.
 
(quoted from post at 16:50:45 04/14/11) I called the dealer I purchased the trailer from and he didn't see a problem with my truck and trailer. I took my truck, trailer and tractor to a local RV dealer and he didn't see any problem with my truck pulling the 14k trailer either.
Click to expand...

Of course the trailer dealer saw noting wrong with it... He'll tell you what you want to hear to make the sale. After the sale, he's got your money so he'll tell you what you want to hear to make you go away.

Don't even get me started on RV dealers. They'll hook a 9000lb travel trailer behind a Ford Fiesta if they can convince the driver it's a safe combination.
 
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