Lately I keep reading about people saying how you need to change to 12 v top get good starting. I just don"t get it. Iffin it was design that way to begin with then it"s a fair bet it was meant to work that way. I have and have seen quite few 6v systems that work flawlessly. The only time they don"t is when there is a problem. It would seem to me that it would be simpler to fix the problem rather than go through the change out. I have started both our WD and JD40 in some mighty cold weather on 6v and to be honest it didn"t roll over any worse than the pickup at 12v. Maybe I should switch the pickup to 24v.
- Thread starter KB
- Start date
It all comes down to what are you using the tractor for. The alternators provide better charging at lower RPM's than gens. The 12V starters do crank faster. The 12V batteries are available everywhere. There is a reason that automobiles converted to 12V. I want to work my tractors and not mess with them, so I am a 12V guy.
wh
Well-known Member
i have 4 converted to 12v. they all started fine when i decided to convert. reason to convert -- 12v battery cheaper/easier to find, brighter lights/can have more lights/safer on road, can run a 12v sprayer on any tractor, alternator charges faster, if i do need to jump start is is safer. my tractors are not show queens, they are here to use. like everthing else, times change how things are done or else the tractor companys would have continued to use 6v systems. if 6v works for you, fine - i just don't see the need to get on here and talk down to the one's who run a 12v system. i would never say that anyone running 6v should get with the times and change to 12v.
60 acre hillside
Member
My reason for changing was to have interchangable batteries. I have more tractors than I have batteries. Also buy Used Delco Remy alternators for $15. Make my own mounting brackets
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
You are right , though ,the majority change over to "bandaid" a problem . Usually bad wiring , starter , worn out or untuned engine/carb etc. Some cases it probably is cheaper to change to 12v than fix everything , if'n that's how you do things in life.
JOHNNYfromMI
Member
Seems as if everybody has changed their 6 volt tractor to 12 volt! If I change my 2008 pickup from 12 volts to 24 volts will it start better and will my lights be brighter?
fixerupper
Well-known Member
A few of the bigger tractors that were 6V grunted over just well enough to start on 6V but when oversized pistons were put in them there wasn't enough reserve cranking power to reliably get them going. Today if a farmer still uses an old tractor in the field it's probably one of those bigger tractors (for their time). It might be pulling a planter or sprayer that needs 12V neg. for monitors or blower fans. Or like others said, for a radio. Jim
You guys just don't rememger the old 6-volt chevrolet powerglide that wouldn't start on 6 volts when it came off the carrier. I fought them things for years. In 55 most all autos changed to 12 volt systems, chrysler in 56, and problem 99 percent disappeared. IH didn't change their gasoline tractors to 12 volt until 57, the last year of the 450 gas tractor and same thing. Starting problems eleminated. Sure the old H and M started fine on 6 volt with low compression heads and pistons, but when a live hyd pump, independent pto and higher comp was added they were a constant pain. I know,I know big cable, big battery, still a pain because you can't find a good big 6 volt just anywhere but you can buy a decent 12 volt at the corner grocer. Thank god for 12 volt systems. Oh by the way , worked on plenty of 24 volt systems and there are more disadvantages with them than simple 12 volt. All the military vehicles were straight 24 volt, not that mixed up insulated ground system John Deere used, and they still were no big advantage.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
12V spins your engine faster and starts it better in all conditions, especially if it is very cold or if the engine has marginal compression.
*12V with an alternator is more reliable and uses a solid state VR instead of a decrepit system of points, coils and electromagnets to regulate the charging voltage.
If you don't think solid state is better show me a new flat screen TV, cell phone or computer that uses tubes and I'll buy you a cup of coffee.
*12V is more forgiving of dirty contacts on/in the entire wiring harness.
*12v is the industry standard and has been for nearly 50 years. That's longer than 6V ever was and getting longer every year.
*12v allows you to run sprayer pumps, flashing lights, winches and a host of other modern accessories on your tractor.
*12V lights are brighter.
*A 12v alternator will easily put out more amps than an old fashioned generator and vr.
*An alternator will charge at an idle. Generator usually will not.
*A 12v system is safer, ie: Most people know how to jump a 12v negative ground car, truck or tractor. How many people know how to safely jump a 6v positive ground tractor with a 12 battery without something exploding in their faces?
*6v requires big hairy - big as your thumb wires and cables throughout the system.
*12v batteries are to be found just about anywhere, are cheaper than 6v and are usually maintenance free.
* And last but not least, is this your only tractor? If so who needs an odd ball 6v battery? Like, what kind of battery is in your your daily driver, boat, your RV, your classic car or even your 4 wheeler or snowmobile if you have them? Why have that odd ball?
*12V with an alternator is more reliable and uses a solid state VR instead of a decrepit system of points, coils and electromagnets to regulate the charging voltage.
If you don't think solid state is better show me a new flat screen TV, cell phone or computer that uses tubes and I'll buy you a cup of coffee.
*12V is more forgiving of dirty contacts on/in the entire wiring harness.
*12v is the industry standard and has been for nearly 50 years. That's longer than 6V ever was and getting longer every year.
*12v allows you to run sprayer pumps, flashing lights, winches and a host of other modern accessories on your tractor.
*12V lights are brighter.
*A 12v alternator will easily put out more amps than an old fashioned generator and vr.
*An alternator will charge at an idle. Generator usually will not.
*A 12v system is safer, ie: Most people know how to jump a 12v negative ground car, truck or tractor. How many people know how to safely jump a 6v positive ground tractor with a 12 battery without something exploding in their faces?
*6v requires big hairy - big as your thumb wires and cables throughout the system.
*12v batteries are to be found just about anywhere, are cheaper than 6v and are usually maintenance free.
* And last but not least, is this your only tractor? If so who needs an odd ball 6v battery? Like, what kind of battery is in your your daily driver, boat, your RV, your classic car or even your 4 wheeler or snowmobile if you have them? Why have that odd ball?
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
The way I figure it a man ought to do what he wants to with his own tractor. Ain't nobody elses buisness.
For a worker I want 12 volts for the simple reason that it's more reliable. For a showpiece it would be the way it left the factory even though I hate 6 volts with a passion. I've pushed, pulled & rolled off enough of them in my younger day's to last a lifetime. I haven't had a 6 volt system since back when battery tops were tar & you never got one to last a year in anything.
For a worker I want 12 volts for the simple reason that it's more reliable. For a showpiece it would be the way it left the factory even though I hate 6 volts with a passion. I've pushed, pulled & rolled off enough of them in my younger day's to last a lifetime. I haven't had a 6 volt system since back when battery tops were tar & you never got one to last a year in anything.
They do have the right...they own 'em, but I say "AMEN Brother!" Nothing uglier to me on a classic oldie than a big ol' Chevy alternator hanging' out...then they use it as a selling tool to try to get more money: This "ultra Rare 1950 John Deere B with the much sought after and hard to find Rol o Matic front end has been converted to 12v" "You won't find one nicer than this restored fresh barn find!" $9800!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
It takes twice the amps at 6V to do the same amount of work as a similar 12V load. That's why 12V battery cables are smaller gauge than 6V cables.
Ever try to buy a 6V battery at 3 am? But you can buy a 12V battery at Wal-Mart around the clock.
A 6V system is fine, when you have everything set up perfectly: correct gauge battery cables, fully charged battery, and perfect setting on your ignition timing, with good points. BUT when the system is less than optimal, what are you going to use for a jumper vehicle? For most people, its their 12V pickup truck [or car]. And why is that? Because most 12V alternators put out more amps than most 6V generators, and they tend to keep your 12V vehicle at a "peak" state of charge, providing everything is working properly.
Finding 0-gauge battery cables these days takes some pretty good shopping...but that's what a 6V system needs to function properly. Most folks simply don't take the time, or spend the bucks, to give a 6V system what it needs for cables [remember: half the volts takes twice the amps to do the same amount of work]...and that's the usual rub in keeping a tractor 6V.
The 12V stuff is easier to find, AND it's cheaper.
Ever try to buy a 6V battery at 3 am? But you can buy a 12V battery at Wal-Mart around the clock.
A 6V system is fine, when you have everything set up perfectly: correct gauge battery cables, fully charged battery, and perfect setting on your ignition timing, with good points. BUT when the system is less than optimal, what are you going to use for a jumper vehicle? For most people, its their 12V pickup truck [or car]. And why is that? Because most 12V alternators put out more amps than most 6V generators, and they tend to keep your 12V vehicle at a "peak" state of charge, providing everything is working properly.
Finding 0-gauge battery cables these days takes some pretty good shopping...but that's what a 6V system needs to function properly. Most folks simply don't take the time, or spend the bucks, to give a 6V system what it needs for cables [remember: half the volts takes twice the amps to do the same amount of work]...and that's the usual rub in keeping a tractor 6V.
The 12V stuff is easier to find, AND it's cheaper.
If you are looking at it from a purists viewpoint a conversion would be a travesty but for those who work with their tractors and need reliable starting in the dead of winter and a reliable lighting system and a system with reserve capable of running accesories with heavy amperage draws and turning engines that have been updated with overbore kits it's a no brainer. I have converted many over my years as a professional mechanic and have many satisfied customers. If you choose to keep yours with the old inferior system fine, but please don't look down your nose with disgust at those who those who choose a more modern system. There are many old tractrors still used daily and reliability is paramount. Put an overbore in a M or DC Case and see how long you stay with a 6 volt system, They made kits to change the starters to gear reductions back then to make up for the inadequacies of the 6 volt systems. mEl
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
If the 12V conversion is done as a bandaid fix to patch over the symptoms causing hard starting. Then an 8V or 12V conversion is proof of what kind of mechanic is performing the work. Repair the cause , don't treat the symptoms.
If 12V is required for a crop monitor, two way radio or similar. Then a 12V conversion if done neat, clean & tidy is acceptable.
If 12V is required for a crop monitor, two way radio or similar. Then a 12V conversion if done neat, clean & tidy is acceptable.
I remember back in the early 50s that some cars wouldnt always start in below 0 weather. They used to put blanket over the engine and a light bulb under the engine so they would start in the cold. I have a 43 JD B thats all original but the battery cost a lot more then a 12 volt. and I dont use it in the winter either. I know some say if its running right it will start on 6 volt,but even some of the new ones just didnt have the power to start in cold weather
my reason is simply I'm a cheap-ola,(and have you ever tried to find 6v spray controlers?lol).I can convert one for less money than I can buy a 6v genny,OR have one rebuilt.Now ,if i'm working on one for show its a different deal of course,ive converted them back to 6v several times.But my tractors that go to the field are all 12v,and if at all possible use the same part numbers and batteries.One quits while plowing ,planting,or baling, I personally cant depend on some parts place 200 miles away to get me parts,I just cant wait three or four days or a week.If neccesary i'll go to my truck and change batteries and run without charging system ,I cant do that with 6v system.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm actually in favor of 12V conversions, except on "show" tractors that are trying to please the "correct police."
I've got a couple of old International pickups--a '51 and a '52--and both were converted to 12V before I bought them. Would I take 'em back to 6V? HELL no! As I said, if you break down in East BFE at 2 am, your nearest Wal-Mart has all kinds of 12V stuff...and during the day, so does AutoZoo, O'Really?'s, and about any other fly-by-night auto parts outfit. I have no problems with a correctly-done 12V conversion.
And my family ran a garage that specialized in Farmalls, so I know exactly what you're saying about a high-compression M needing 12V to crank it over. On that part, you're preachin' to the choir when you're talkin' to me.
I've got a couple of old International pickups--a '51 and a '52--and both were converted to 12V before I bought them. Would I take 'em back to 6V? HELL no! As I said, if you break down in East BFE at 2 am, your nearest Wal-Mart has all kinds of 12V stuff...and during the day, so does AutoZoo, O'Really?'s, and about any other fly-by-night auto parts outfit. I have no problems with a correctly-done 12V conversion.
And my family ran a garage that specialized in Farmalls, so I know exactly what you're saying about a high-compression M needing 12V to crank it over. On that part, you're preachin' to the choir when you're talkin' to me.
You can call it "bandaid" all you want, but there are just some times when no amount of "fixing it right" cures the problem.
For many years, the old Super M was 6V.
After going through several starter buttons, Dad installed a solenoid.
That was better, but every few years, the solenoid would go bad, so you'd have to reach around and smack it with a wrench.
Then the battery would up and die for no apparent reason.
Then the generator would quit working, and kill another battery.
By the time all that got fixed, it was about time for the starter to go bad.
It seemed like Dad was constantly chasing his tail, shining up connections, changing cables, changing batteries, fixing on the generator, replacing starters, etc..
Since the 12V conversion, the tractor has required ZERO battery maintenance, ZERO alternator maintenance, ZERO solenoid maintenance, ZERO electrical maintenance of any kind. It can sit for months and fires right up first time, every time.
The H seems okay on its original 6V system, but the W400 is also 6V, and its another problem child. That W400 almost always needs a jump start if it's been sitting more than a few days.
For many years, the old Super M was 6V.
After going through several starter buttons, Dad installed a solenoid.
That was better, but every few years, the solenoid would go bad, so you'd have to reach around and smack it with a wrench.
Then the battery would up and die for no apparent reason.
Then the generator would quit working, and kill another battery.
By the time all that got fixed, it was about time for the starter to go bad.
It seemed like Dad was constantly chasing his tail, shining up connections, changing cables, changing batteries, fixing on the generator, replacing starters, etc..
Since the 12V conversion, the tractor has required ZERO battery maintenance, ZERO alternator maintenance, ZERO solenoid maintenance, ZERO electrical maintenance of any kind. It can sit for months and fires right up first time, every time.
The H seems okay on its original 6V system, but the W400 is also 6V, and its another problem child. That W400 almost always needs a jump start if it's been sitting more than a few days.
John M
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nunyafn business
I agree 100%!!!!
Rich'sToys
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern MN
Acceptable?????
I'm not interested in "acceptance" from anyone. I do with my own equipment what is acceptable to me....as should everyone else. If the correct police don't "accept" it, that's their problem!
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