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Acetylene gas shortage?

D

dbernie

Member
In Illinois, acetylene for my torches been hard to come by.
Heard some plant burnt down that makes one of the ingredients.
Also told that they've found some in Brazil, but limited amount of the ingredient (Carbide???), and is a nationwide shortage. Plus, price gonna go way up. May be worth switching tips and hose and going with MAPP instead.

Anybody else havin trouble gettin gas for your oxy-acetylene torches?
The oxygen is readily available.

Just curious.

Thanks for input, Dan
 
The only US supplier of acetone had some sort of explosion or fire and their plant is shut down.

"Although flammable itself, acetone is also used extensively as a solvent for the safe transporting and storing of acetylene, which cannot be safely pressurized as a pure compound. Vessels containing a porous material are first filled with acetone followed by acetylene, which dissolves into the acetone. One liter of acetone can dissolve around 250 liters of acetylene"
 
I hadn't heard about it. We use propane anyway. Not
quite as hot, but it cuts cleaner and after a while
you won't be able to tell the difference.
 
We aren't having trouble at work yet, haven't changed my own in a year or better. If it's true and when the time comes, I'll look into propylene. Never used it, but do know it is preferred by some over propane and especially MAPP. It all depends on which expert or salesman you trust as to which route to go.
 
I have a relative in the rigging business, he has several of the Petrogen gasoline torches.
They work really well for cutting, especially for dirty / rusty steel.

His job of removing equipment from defunct food processing plants takes him to many citys where the safety inspectors get their eyes all bugged out over transporting / handling / storing aceytelene gas, some flat will not allow it.
He says the inspectors have no problem at all with the gasoline / oxygen torch.

He says they run cheap on 87 octane regular, compared to the cost of Aceytelene.
Once your used to lighting a cold torch, burying the tip in the flame until the tip heats up so it vaporizes gasoline well, than slice right through dirty rusty stuff that gives Aceytelene or propane fits.

He says they cut great, but are poor to useless for heating or welding / brazing.
 
i just switched out acetylene at the shop, didnt have any problems getting cylinders, my supplier hasnt said anything yet about a shortage.
 
I'll talk to my supplier again about options this week.
Actually, I said MAPP but he had a different name, I can't recall, he said was basically a better replacement for,"what used to be called MAPP" as he stated.

He was supposed to get some in on Friday, but I didn't have time to get by there. The "new" price may be bad enough, as he said, that it might not cost much more to change hose/tips and switch to something else.

Any more input would be great, it will either be Monday afternoon, or Wednesday afternoon, before I get back to the welding shop.
Like to hear more feedback on options/experience with options.

Thanks again, Dan

Also, it may be Acetelyne--I may have mis-spelled.
Dock me for that one, I admit it.
 
MarkB_MI:
Thanks for the link, that must be it.
Real sorry to hear there were deaths and injuries.
 
Another thread from a welding forum and indirect info from welding suppliers

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=52806

Looks like the plant that blew up provided 75% of the USA with the calcium carbide used to make acetylene. My take: Unless that 75% supply can be replaced from somewhere else then there will definitely be a supply shortage and a hefty price increase to go along with it.

Glad I mothballed my torch years ago (got tired of paying the expensive bottle leases and the gas just kept skyrocketing in price. Worst I would always run out of gas on weekends when everyplace to get refills was closed). I now use Twin Carbon arc along with the Lincoln AC-225 buzzbox welder to produce an intense flame to heat metal with for bending, or freeing rusted nuts. Twin Carbon arc can potentially burn up to 1000 degrees hotter if desired than oxy/acet so it can also be used to silver solder, braze, and improvise flame fill weld. Twin Carbon arc WILL NOT cut metal- must use other methods to cut metal. My flames compare to a oxy/acet with a rosebud tip installed. More skilled user's can alter their flame shapes, but it takes practice. Regardless, about as close as it gets to free heat as all you have to buy is the electricity to power the welder which is cheap and a $10 box of carbon rods lasts a very long time. The torch head to hold the rods can be made for almost free or purchased cheaply. (NOTE: Do not confuse a Twin Carbon Arc torch with Carbon gouging or ArcAir which is a totally different process).
 

I ran out of Acetylene yesterday. I've sent a email to Petrogen asking for a price on the set-up. Seems like a better way to go. I can take the empty gas bottle back and get another Oxygen bottle so I always have a full one on hand. Like you say....always on a Saturday afternoon. Thanks!
 
Hey rankrank1,
Can you give me any more info on how to build or where to buy a
Twin Carbon Arc torch. I've got the same welder as you mentioned,
I'd like to get setup with this.
Thanks, Dan
 
Carbon arc torches were losing popularity 45 years ago. You have much better control and heat concentration with a torch. With a carbon arc torch you have to wear a welding helmet as well. Google carbon arc torch. A Petrogen gasoline torch is very expensive and is great for emergency use or cutting piles of scrap. It's not a substitute for a standard cutting torch though.
 
(quoted from post at 00:28:39 04/04/11) Hey rankrank1,
Can you give me any more info on how to build or where to buy a
Twin Carbon Arc torch. I've got the same welder as you mentioned,
I'd like to get setup with this.
Thanks, Dan
Click to expand...

Again - remember this thing is NOT for cutting - it will not cut metal. but it can be used to intensely heat metal. Also it can be used flameless style by touching both rods on a nut and flip the welder on - convection will heat the nut up without a flame so you can avoid paint damage to the surrounding area - works sorta like a heating element and great for sensitive areas.

Here is a link on making one. (I had origianlly planned on making one but found an old PwrKraft on Craiglist for $20 so went that route. scavenging tip for the heavy wire - I was going to use a set of junk jumper cables for the heavy wire needed to make them).

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-carbon-arc-torch-for-your-220-volt-stick-we/


Here is a youtube link showing a Lincoln brand torch head in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYnsCXVsJsw


Here is another youtube video showing a different brand torch head in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW_Wj4ZY-gE


Note: What neither of these videos tell is that it is possible to change your flame shape (with practice of course) by adjusting the rod approachment angles and playing with the amps. Oldtimers could improvise tig weld with these things, but I can not. Still even a hack like me can easily produce a rosebud type flame.
 
Yes, I understand it is not for cutting.
Just learned somethin new, and sounds handy to have around.
I'll google it to see if I can find a used one,
but the instructions on that link you supplied are excellent.
I'll go that route, if need be, no problem.
Thanks again
 
(quoted from post at 22:46:13 04/02/11) In Illinois, acetylene for my torches been hard to come by.
Heard some plant burnt down that makes one of the ingredients.
Also told that they've found some in Brazil, but limited amount of the ingredient (Carbide???), and is a nationwide shortage. Plus, price gonna go way up. May be worth switching tips and hose and going with MAPP instead.

Anybody else havin trouble gettin gas for your oxy-acetylene torches?
The oxygen is readily available.

Just curious.

Thanks for input, Dan
Click to expand...

yup, just called my local praxair distributor. NO acetylene, he thought 3-4 wks before he got any. Not sure if he's just saying that. Will call in 3-4 wks and see what he says. I was going to go last Friday and get my spare Acetylene tank filled. Glad I didn't waste the trip. Never would have thought to call ahead. Guess I'll conserve my current one and get the propane one filled. Just glad I'm a weekend user and don't need it for my job.
 
Went to my supplier today to discuss options.
I'm going to switch to "Chemtame" I believe it is called.
They're workin with their customers through this, so I can exchange my acetelyne tank for a Chemtame. Just pay for the fill. Chemtame is slightly more expensive; however, with the shortage, Acetelyne may prove to be more expensive. The additional benefit, same size tank and the Chemtame will give me about 4.3 times the use of the same size Acetelyne. Its actually much cheaper.

They took me in the back, and let me use a "test setup" they have, short lesson to learn how to adjust flame, a bit different than Acetelyne. I was impressed when I cut through a 1" steel plate they had there. Cleaner cut than Acetelyne for me.

To do it right, I have to change my hoses, around $30 for 25' set, and my tip HAS to be changed. I may switch permanent to this Chemtame, we'll see.

Just trying to give a heads up. Might be a long while before Acetelyne is readily available at a decent cost.
 
Just talked to welding shop and he also said he is going to have to switch his torch that is on MAPP as that is also going to be discontinued. I am going to try to go with propane.
 
Ive used a carbon arc torch since the 50s and do all my brazing with it.Sears sold a good torch and I have a Forney torch.Surprised that are people who dont know about using one..I made up a hot carbon torch that is used on a 6 volt auto battery.The carbon gets red hot and can be used big soldering jobs.I borrowed a gas outfit years ago.The cost of tank rent and gases kept me from buying one of my own.My dad brought home a suitcase welder that could do hot carbon soldering and carbon arc brazing and welding.This rig can solder copper water pipe with no open flame, just a red glow from the carbon tip.You can do rough cutting with an arc welder.
 
MAPP is going to be discontinued? Care to cite references that say so?

Dad just got a fresh tank a couple weeks ago. No indication of MAPP being discontinued.
 
Also it can be used flameless style by touching both rods on a nut and flip the welder on - convection will heat the nut up without a flame so you can avoid paint damage to the surrounding area - works sorta like a heating element and great for sensitive areas.
Click to expand...

Good info, rankrank1.

In high school welding class, a friend and I made a boat out of 2 old car hoods. On part of it, we used a carbon arc torch to braze some seams. On another project, we used it to heat and bend metal.

We enjoyed using it, and I've often thought about getting one myself.
And from what you say about using it to heat frozen nuts without a flame, makes me want to get one, for sure.
 
MAPP is no longer available as far as i know. at least the original MAPP gas. i believe it was a byproduct of one of Duponts chemical plants that has now shut down or changed production. the name is still out there but it is not the original MAPP gas. also the mixture of acetylene and propane is called propylene. i run an acetylene manufacturing facility in Decatur, AL and this shortage has really hurt me. My acetylene plant has been down for a month now. I also fill high pressure cylinders and sell welding supplies so i'm not xcompletely dead in the water but $32K a month gone really puts the stress on. i do have carbide coming from overseas but it just take forever to get it here. there is a new product called Magnegas on the market. check them out at www.magnegas.com it's very clean, very green, and uses wastewater, oil, antifreeze, any hydrocarbon to produce a gas thas is equivilant with acetylene in every way EXCEPT you cant weld steel with it. Awesome product!!! for the home user i think propane would be your best bet though.
 
Magnegas may be safer and cleaner for the environment than acetylene but l get a kick out of all the claims by every new type of fuel gas that they have cleaner cuts than acetylene. Actually on the Magnegas site it says results may vary. What does that mean? In a machine torch any fuel gas can produce excellent results. In a hand held torch with an experienced welder, you can't beat an acetylene cut. You can come close but to say another gas cuts better is false. Being that you sell acetylene, you'd have the most knowledge about how much it is used in industry. $32,000 a month from just your plant sure sounds like a lot to me.
 

I exchanged my tanks for full ones this week. My welding supply house exchanged my oxygen but my acetylene tank was out dated. He suggested giving it to tractor supply......they took it and gave me a full acetylene, no problem. No shortage where I've been.
 
JMCylinderGases (guest):
You're probably already aware since in the business, but my understanding is that somewhere in Brazil and Africa are areas to get the ingredient for Acetelyne. Don't know any more specifics than that, other than it will be more expensive. Just mentioning in case you could check there for supplies...
 
I work for welding distributor. Yes, Acetylene is a HUGE problem right now. We are out as is most of our competitors- and if they are nt yet they will be soon- probably into the middle of summer- Best thing to use guys--- Propylene, Ametylene. Burns a little cooler but turn your regulator up to about 9 and the oxy up a little- chang your hose to a T grade and make sure you use a Fuel Tip. Might cost a little for the extras but the 2 other gases i talk about will last 3 to 4 times longer, and with the price of Acetylene going to be at a record high when its available because of the demand then SWITCH Gases Now- you will win in the long run. Trust me.
 
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