Detroit Diesel 453N problem (update)

I looked at the loader that has a 4-53N detroit diesel that wont start, owner was told it was running then just quit and wouldnt restart, It does not have a shut off door on the blower, the loader shows 1200 hours on it and I think its right, the engine turns over good with the starter but doesnt seem like it has compression, the govener linkage is unhooked and it wont move. A friend of his said the rack has a decompression on it and opens the valves to shut it down. Does that sound right?

A loader with a 4-53N would have to be almost in showroom condition to only have 1200 hours. More than likely the hour meter has been replaced or gone around once already.

Hello Mikes806/H,
The way that the 4-53N shuts down is with a cable or solenoid. No such thing as a decompression SHUT DOWN on the thing.
The rack may bee stuck in a no fuel position, or has just ran out of fuel while sitting. Check the filter/s and see if they are full.
A little squirt of starting fluid will tell you if there is a fuel problem.
Good Luck.................Guido.

I'm not familiar with the 4-53 but bigger Detroit Diesel engines had issues with flanges that attach the camshaft to the gear train. Might remove the valve cover and have someone crank it over to see if the valves are operating properly.

The owner purchased it not running, he was told they were using it and the engine just shut off and wouldnt restart, the throttle linkage is unhooked and it wont move, I gave it some starting fluid while he was cranking it over and no clank or nothing, seemed to me like no compression also there is a cable that is unhooked by the throttle linkage that is unhooked for the shut off,

The loader doesnt show much wear, it was purchased new and was used at a prison to load coal for the boiler, the hour meter could of been replaced but does look to be a low hour machine

I would pull off the valve cover to check if the fuel rack is free to move and if the valve gear moves. Lack of compression may be from overreving and bent valves.
I had a 4-53 that had a bit of loose metal trash fall down the oil drain hole at the rear of the head, which broke the cam and balance shaft drive gears.

You should be able to check for all above problems by removing the valve cover and turning the engine.

That cable should pull a lever on the square governor cover, it is the fuel shut down cable.
The governor fuel shut down lever will have a spring to pullit to the "Run" position, and the cable pulls it to the "stop" position.
The governor stop lever must be held to the run position by the spring for the engine to get any fuel.

If it is free to swing away from the lever stop, you get little or no fuel.

Hello Mike,
Take the valve cover off. The fuel rack should be about 1/2 way between th injector body and other side of the engine head.
If one injector is stuck, the whole rack won't move.
Guido.

Alright does the supercharger turn when you crank the engine? The drive shaft for the supercharger could be broke and it wont start if the supercharger isn't turning.
As far as the rack is concerned,if you push the throttle open it moves the rack.Each injector has its own metering device on it,so it lets more fuel in the more the rack moves. Now there is more to it than that,but that should tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree if the rack moves it ought to run. In fact I don't think the rack will even shut the fuel off to it. You should have a shutoff solenoid to shut it off. Also when you try and start it,you need somebody ready with a plate of steel about 1/8 inch thick to cut the air off to the intake in case it tries to run away. See if you have fuel. What I would do is give it a little snort of ether if it fires you know its not getting fuel. That would be if the blower(supercharger)is turning.
Be sure and tell what you see on that blower turning.
Also is the fuel pump pumping?Find the return line and take it off,crank and see if you have any fuel.If not,see if you can get a line off after the pump and prime it,hook it back up and see if that gets it going.If it has been setting that could have dried out.Don't mess with the rack because that has to be set.Its kind of complicated.The pin that goes through the rod on the rack should be loose a little when the throttle is all the way closed.Like barely any drag on it,throttle all the way closed.Then you have a governor,which is some springs that will let it go a little and then force it back.If its not right it will go and not come back.It is not much adjustment to make it do that so don't mess with that either.The only way to shut it off is to shut the fuel off to it with the shutoff solenoid or shut the air off to it with a plate that will cover the air intake,which you want to take the fittings for the air cleaner off of it so you can put the plate over it if it runs away.

Your blower shaft is broken

53's are good for shearing the blower drive shaft spline. Usually if it is sheared it will fire one little time with ether but thats all. Some of the newer 53's have a "broken back" or spring loaded rack at each injector so if one sticks the rack can still return to idle.

This machine is a 1984 model

Given what you have said so far, like others have said too,it sounds like the blower drive shaft may have sheared off. I've seen it happen numerous times over the years on customers machines. Like you say you were told happened, they just shut down when the shaft shears because no air can get to into the cylinder without the blower turning. As for trying to start it with ether, if the blower isn't turning then neither the air nor the ether is getting to the cylinder so it can't fire and does absolutely nothing.

That said how do you know for sure there is no emergency shutoff flap on this engine? Do you know what to look for and where to look to tell it's absolutely not there without removing anything. Given it's location there's not really any way to do it without taking enough intake piping off to see wether this feature is there or not. If you do that, you should be able to see the lobes of the blower to tell if they are turning or not. That said, the flap is made into the housing bolted to the side of the blower that takes the rectangular opening of the blower to a round flange. There is then a thin plate with a gasket on each side(one having a coarse screen in it) between the housing and the blower. The flap thenseats/ seals against that plate when it's actuated. I've seen engines where the seal plate is left out making the flap pretty well usless but I've never seen one with the flaps absolutely not there because of the way the whole flap and housing piece of assembled. Like I said if you've got the piping off to the point you can say flap or no flap, you should be able to see if the blower lobes are moving when the engine turns over. In other words if the flap is tripped all you'll see a flat plate. If that's the case there will be a rod sticking out the lower side of the housing with a little lever attached and a spring loaded lock that keeps it latched. If the flap is not tripped you should see the blower lobes behind a mesh screen.

Regardless of wether it has the emergency shutdown flap or not the symptoms you are describing are very typical of exactly what everyone is saying and that is no air/or ether, is getting into the cylinder. To me the fact it won't fire on ether is what leads me to that conclusion as to the problem over anything to do with the fuel rack........other than it being unhooked. Ultimately it sounds like you need someone that knows something ab out the Detroits to give it a once over to both get it running and then to make sure everything is adjusted right given the governor linkage being unhooked, etc, as that all has to be right for the engine to run like it should. Good luck. Wayne

Does it look anything like this? Maybe exactly?

for the emergency shutoff flap there was no shaft on the side of the intake with the trip lever on it, the governor linkage is unhooked, maybe I explained it wrong? the throttle cable is unhooked from the governor and I cant move it by hand, any ideas why it wont move? Im thinking about purchasing this loader just want to have a good idea on what to expect is wrong with the engine, he has a detroit manual for it so im sure I can fix it just dont want to spend alot of money to fix it cause he is kinda a little high on the price for it,

It seems to me like you've got a really good bargaining tool in that the engine doesn't run. You can't ask premium price if it doesn't even run. What make and model is the loader and what is the asking price? Depending on the loader, it could be hard to get parts for or it could be a problematic machine. The more info you can give, the better.

A bit of a red flag that it was at a prison. Who knows if a prisoner might have had access to it and done something to damage the engine?

The throttle cable wont move or the lever that runs the rack wont move? If its the lever it sounds like a stuck injector.That could be your problem too.Before you mess with a Detroit you need to know something about it.You really should take somebody who knows about it with you.You have to take the valve cover off to check the rack.If its a stuck rack because its binding you might have found it.Usually its a stuck injector and you have to change it.If you change it you have to set it.
Its been a good 20 years since I messed with a Detroit but the last one had a broken blower shaft.I think I got it out with a big magnet and had it back running in about an hour.I don't remember what you have to remove to get to the blower shaft,maybe just a plate.Somebody who works on them a lot will be more help than me.I know messing with that governor will cause one to run away and if you want to shut one that's running away off you need to already have the air cleaner stuff unhooked so you can throw a plate over it.
Thinking about a stuck injector,maybe you can tap the slide piece with a hammer and unstick it? I would try that to see if it would start.Maybe not until I bought it.You don't really want to fix it then try and buy it Id say.
Still don't see where you say if the blower is turning or not.If the blowers not turning its the blower shaft.Supercharger,blower, whatever you want to call it.It actually is the supercharger.

yup thats it, looks better in the picture then up close

clark 45C, seems to be tight (pins), tach shows 1200 hours I dont know if its right but it could be, tires maybe 50% and two leak, owner wants 9950.00 seems high to me for a not running old loader, I purchased last year a 1988 dresser 515B X navy machine with 1400 hours excellent shape QT bucket 5.9 cummins for $12000.00, for 2000.00 more i got a loader that needed nothing but a paint job to cover the camo