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Casey in Ky

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Saudi unrest report knocks stocks lower

News that Saudi police fired on protests sends the Dow more than 200 points. Stocks fell to new lows this afternoon on an Associated Press report that police in Saudi Arabia had fired on protesters Qatif, a city on the east coast near Bahrain. There were reports of some injuries.

Within seconds of the report, the Dow Jones Industrial Average ($INDU) saw a decline of some 160 points grow to as many as 239 points before stabilizing.

Crude oil in New York, which had dropped below $102, rallied back to $103.38 a barrel. That's still down $1 on the day.
 
Any summer busineses that depend on the public traveling any sort of distance trip are in trouble.
Anybody who owns or builds pickups and full size SUV's are in trouble too.
 
Must be a different source for news. I heard on the radio at 11 this morning that stocks were down over 200 points on news of higher that expected first time filings for unemployment.
 
That started it...then the market rallied back little to about 150 point loss, then the Saudi thing came out, oil went back over 103 a barrel, and the market went back down to under 12000.
 
But on the bright side,I just checked DTN and April live cattle are up another 12 and a half cents right now.
 
HHMMM,just flipped the TV to one of the business channels too. Oil's at 102.38,down $2 on the day just a few minutes from the close.
 
Gas prices are the least of my concern. Go look what happened last time oil spiked like this. Wasn't very long ago (2008). If we hit $130-135 a barrel again, we might well be at +20% unemployment.
 
I watched a few minutes of Fox Business and it was like they were trying to get the guest to say that Natural Gas should be used to power vehicles with.
They said you really had to search to find a natural gas vehicle.I didn't know anybody made a natural gas powered vehicle.
Where would you fill it up?How would you fill it up?Does it work like propane?Do you compress it into a tank somehow? Would it be cheaper than gas?My guess is that if you could buy a car that burned it,and if you could fill it up somehow,that they would charge you just as much or more than they do for gas because its coming from the same crooks isn't it?
 
I think its not practical to store natural gas as a liquid, due to high pressures needed- so you have to just compress it a much as possible, and therefore have very little storage in a tank, under high pressure. Lots of little motivatin' bombs cruising around, looking for a filling station.
 
(quoted from post at 20:27:33 03/10/11) I watched a few minutes of Fox Business and it was like they were trying to get the guest to say that Natural Gas should be used to power vehicles with.
They said you really had to search to find a natural gas vehicle.I didn't know anybody made a natural gas powered vehicle.
Where would you fill it up?How would you fill it up?Does it work like propane?Do you compress it into a tank somehow? Would it be cheaper than gas?My guess is that if you could buy a car that burned it,and if you could fill it up somehow,that they would charge you just as much or more than they do for gas because its coming from the same crooks isn't it?
Click to expand...

CNG
 
I think its all a bunch of Bull hackie,
Washington and Wall Street are going to break us all. If there is all the oil in the U.S. that everyone is talking about the lets drill baby drill.
 
We are already at 20% real unemployment.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2009/07/unemployment-actually-much-higher-close-20-percent



35% of the income in the United States comes from social programs, add in government employees and you'll see how right now every working man and woman is supporting one person through taxes either through welfare/social security or a government job.
 
I have no idea how they fuel those busses in tacoma, but all I see have natural gas fueled vehicle, labeled on the side, in posters, like murels.
 
Actually its like propane.I didnt find any pictures of the tanks but they are 1/2 inch thick steel,and hold 8 gallons.It costs about 1000 dollars to get a rig to hook it up to a car with a carburetor.Its a lot like a forklift that runs inside a warehouse has.There was a little info about putting it on a car with fuel injection,but not very much.You can buy a new Honda that comes ready to run on it.You can buy for 3500 dollars a pump thing to fuel your car up off of your natural gas line at home. So yeah you could do it,but it would cost a lot. But you may be able to buy natural gas for less than a dollar a gallon in some places like Utah.
On a car with a carburetor and the 850 dollar rig,you start the car on gas,and switch to natural gas.The gas runs through a device that has coolant from the engine running through it to heat the gas up and make it burn better.If you run out of natural gas you can switch to gasoline.
A 4 cylinder engine rig is less but I don't remember how much less.Maybe 650. The 3500 dollar filling station at home is kind of killing it.I didn't see anywhere in Missouri that you could get it at a filling station,but there's a few in Oklahoma.
 
Wait another week,day or minute and the prices will rise again.How do you think these oil companies show such tremendous profits.They are still refining oil they bought at a lower price and charging for what they have to buy now.

Vito
 
Buses are ideal for natgas. They are always running and mostly in urban areas where their green attributes are welcome or mandated.

I believe that the Boston area has a large fleet of natgas buses. I recall that they formerly had pressure vessels for compressed natgas. I think they are now LNG fueled with smaller tanks. They don't vent to atmosphere because the vapor is consumed by the engine faster than it is created: even on hot summer days. I'll bet that some of the air conditioning energy comes from the LNG evaporator as well.

The LNG terminal that receives the shipments from Yemen is located next to a large bus maintenance facility. Only a small percentage of the imported LNG is used to fill buses. The rest is vaporized and supplies the pipelines.

30 miles away in my town of Tewksbury, MA is another CNG and LNG fuel station. The Lowell Regional Transportation Authority fuels their fleet there. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more than 100 of these stations around the country, many of them in CA.
 
Prices jumped 15 to 20 cents today. We're paying $3.659 as of this afternoon. Stations falling all over themselves to up the price. I was on the road early morning, and later this afternoon, passed dozens of stations. All upping price.
 
I live near the Ohio River and for the last 3-4 yrs boating has fallen off to near nothing, fishermen, but hardly any pleasue boats anymore put in at Shawneetown
 
Compressed natgas and liquified natgas are not like propane.

Compressed natgas undergoes no phase change. Liquified natgas does undergo a phase change but it is a cryogenic gas unlike propane. Cryogenic means less than minus 250 degrees Fahrenheit vapor temp when released to atmospheric pressure.

The vapor pressure of LNG is uneconomical to contain. LNG is allowed to vaporize without additional heat at ambient and is then compressed and chilled back to liquid. But that is only done if the vapor is not consumed for fuel immediately. The reliquification is only done at large LNG storage facilities and not very often. The vapor goes into pipelines for distribution. I suspect that LNG freighters use the vapor for ship propulsion.

Not sure how they make it back to Yemen or other sources. Perhaps they are dual fueled or they are diesels that are pre-injected with natgas for higher HP when loaded. That would be similar to propane assisted Diesel trucks.
 
Had to chuckle about a guy at work. He got a real nice SeaRay I/O last summer for just about the trouble of hauling out of a guy's yard. That's about all we heard about all last fall was how he and his family would be "living at the lake" next summer. Apparently the reality of hauling the boat 45 miles to the lake then fueling it for a day have set in, haven't heard much lately. I haven't put my boat in the water since gas was $.94 per gallon!
 
We would if we were aloud to. I live, breath and sleep oil industry(what my family's main income is but its not all good right now, own only 3 wells) and here's why we can't drill our own oil; something to the tune of 85%-95% of our domestic oil is locked up in no drill zones( off the cost of California and the east cost or under nature reserve lands, like Alaska.)or the land owner also owns the minerals and is afraid to drill due to his/her fear of blow outs cause of the mass media hysterics event though the reward far out ways the risk. If we were to tap our domestic supply, we would be selling oil to the Saudi's, but as usual politics has most of it locked up. As for the rising prices, its the speculators, now I'm not sure if there just trying to make as much money as possible or if there's a underling cause that we just don't know about but they need to be slowed down if not stopped before all he!! brakes lose.
Alex
 
CNG works best in vehicles that are on consistent routes where they can be refilled at a local depot. They can only travel about 45% of the distance the same vehicle go go while running on propane.

On the trucks that I serviced they fuel system with 100 gallon LP tanks full weighed about the same as the same amount of gasoline. The difference in the weight of the fuel tanks was offset by the lighter weight of the propane.

On passenger cars the fuel tanks present a problem both in weight and shape. Depending on the installed location a motor fuel LP tank has to be rated at either 250 psi or 315psi. They have to pass pressure tests at 4 X rated pressure. That pretty much limits them to cylindrical shape. It can end up taking a large potion of the trunk to install.

CNG tanks are even worse because they have to be much heavier to withstand a couple thousand psi and then end up with much reduced range between fills compared to either gasoline or LPG.
 
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