I need advice ( kinda long)

JDMAN60 · Mar 3, 2011

A little history and the story: I am 45 and work in a factory where I make pretty good money, but I would rather be farming.
I am married and have a 12 1/2 yr old son. My wife is an only child and stands to inherit a real nice 150 acre farm, her dad is 84
and not getting around as good as he used to. Last year he made us partners in the farm, it is mostly tillable land and pretty
flat. The machinery is older but all well maintained and in pretty good shape and all paid for. There are no debts owed on the farm
or machinery. We have 15 head of beef cattle and 80 sheep, the sheep are a money pit and not profitable but have to stay as
long as he is still around. ( he likes his sheep and has always raised them)
This brings me to my problem, my job keeps me away about 60 hours a week and that makes it very hard to keep up with the
farm chores, field work and farm maintenance. I would like to quit my job and stay home but can't afford to do that yet without
some supplemental income. I am trained to be an agricultural and industrial mechanic and would like to start a shop at the farm
but do not have the capital to build a bulding and buy equipment needed to do so. I hear about grants and such to start a business
and help with farm related endeavors but do know how or where to go to aquire such money. I thought I would tap the infinite
fountain of wisdom found on this board, does anyone have any ideas how I can accomplish my goals?
Thanks Willy

DeltaRed · Mar 3, 2011

Quit your job(or goto part time),do as mamy odd jobs as you can,put your wife to work.Work your a$$ off.Thats what we did(still doing).It will be hard,a challenge.But you will make it.We did.Good Luck,Steve and Susan

LAA · Mar 3, 2011

You have answered your own question when you said you could not afford to quit your job, you have a Wife and child, that responsibility has to be the standard that any decision that may affect your ability to provide for them has to be weighed against. Also, if you ever get in bed with the government and accept any grants or loans you will never be independent because some bureaucrat can always show up at your place and tell you what you can or can"t do. Surprised about the sheep being a money pit, they were always money makers for us.

JDMAN60 · Mar 3, 2011

Should have mentioned wife works, manager in medical office, makes almost as much as I do.

randallnMo · Mar 3, 2011

'Don't mean to diminish your concerns, but it looks to me like your solution is right under your nose. Use the equipment and livestock for collateral for a loan to build the shop you need. Where there's a will, there's a way. With that said, probably the LAST thing you need to be doing is putting a mortgage on the farm. It will probably be difficult to obtain a "grant" with a financial statement that "will" look like yours. You might go to the FSC office and inquire about the "beginning farmer" program.

DeltaRed · Mar 3, 2011

Can you trim liveing expenses,downsize to an older car,etc.?lots of things to reduce "outgo".You'd be surprised of the saveings you could find.Good luck.

El Toro · Mar 3, 2011

I wouldn't quit work. You have a son that's almost 13 I would train him to take care of the animals and pay him well. I was doing that when I was his age cleaning out the young stock barn and on the weekends the cow barn. My brother was only 15 and he helped my dad with the morning milking. We went to school full time too. My brother and I did the morning milking if our didn't feel well. I think he played sick to see if we could do it. Those cows needed to be milked. When they heard those milkers sounding off, a lot them started to drip milk so we milked them first. We were shipping milk by metal milk cans and that milk had to go out whether it was snowing or pouring rain. That milk truck was never late. It will teach him responsibility and some time down the line that farm will be his. My brother and I left for the military. Hal

James Baughman · Mar 3, 2011

1. Do I want it?

2. Do I need it?

3. Can I profit by it?

You must honestly say yes to two out of three.
Think about it.....

Traditional Farmer · Mar 3, 2011

Do not quit your job the way things are now,save up the money to build the shop and then get a good amount of $$$ in the bank then think about
doing what you have in mind.All the while you can look for a job with less hrs involved and while you get your shop built you can think about building a group of customers.If you're working on farm equipment 60hrs a week won't be a start during the busy seasons and if you don't keep the customers happy you won't have any business.If you've never run a business its far different than working for someone else.

VADAVE · Mar 3, 2011

Wife works--that's good. Start planning ahead; i.e. have the wife switch her health plan to a family plan, talk to the wife and son about working together to get farm work done. Try budgeting your time. I would say you're in for some really long hours as you get this going but keep focused on the future.
Also talk to the father-in-law for advise and help.
Are there no buildings at all? If there are take some jobs that you can do and build your shop buisness. Nothing comes over night and full up.

thurlow · Mar 3, 2011

Know how to make a small fortune farming? Start with a large fortune. My opinion.......which is worth exactly what it cost you........don't quit your job, unless you can live comfortably on what your wife makes and she likes the idea and will still be liking it 8-10 years down the road.

Rootsy · Mar 3, 2011

(quoted from post at 10:53:55 03/03/11) A little history and the story: I am 45 and work in a factory where I make pretty good money, but I would rather be farming.
I am married and have a 12 1/2 yr old son. My wife is an only child and stands to inherit a real nice 150 acre farm, her dad is 84
and not getting around as good as he used to. Last year he made us partners in the farm, it is mostly tillable land and pretty
flat. The machinery is older but all well maintained and in pretty good shape and all paid for. There are no debts owed on the farm
or machinery. We have 15 head of beef cattle and 80 sheep, the sheep are a money pit and not profitable but have to stay as
long as he is still around. ( he likes his sheep and has always raised them)
This brings me to my problem, my job keeps me away about 60 hours a week and that makes it very hard to keep up with the
farm chores, field work and farm maintenance. I would like to quit my job and stay home but can't afford to do that yet without
some supplemental income. I am trained to be an agricultural and industrial mechanic and would like to start a shop at the farm
but do not have the capital to build a bulding and buy equipment needed to do so. I hear about grants and such to start a business
and help with farm related endeavors but do know how or where to go to aquire such money. I thought I would tap the infinite
fountain of wisdom found on this board, does anyone have any ideas how I can accomplish my goals?
Thanks Willy

You have a lot of thinking, figuring and accounting to do before you even consider making this decision. 150 acres isn't a "Big" farm these days and the only plus is that it is debt free. If you plan to grow cash crops such as beans, wheat and corn the profit margin isn't huge on a per acre basis. You need a history of how the land produces, what it needs traditionally for nutrients a desire and ability to adapt to and adopt modern farming practices vs farming like it is 1970 or even 1980. Throwing cash at new toys and such isn't always feasible and wise and neither is using old worn out equipment that may be undersized for the job at hand.

For all intensive purposes you are going to be (literally) a business owner and one who does not understand every aspect of his / her business and how to properly manage it and make wise decisions is destined to fail. The farming business is especially difficult because you cannot control Mother Nature and with the size of your projected operation you don't have a lot of acreage to dilute loss, debt, costs, etc over.

Time to get the pencil out and some ag economics books...

MidTn · Mar 3, 2011

What happens if sometime the wife decides she does not want you around anymore? It happens. No job, no farm.

Clodbuster · Mar 3, 2011

Keep the job you have, rent out the farm, save and invest most of the rent money, someday retire out at the farm if you wish. Just an idea.

NEsota · Mar 3, 2011

The two income family, your age, with only one other dependent, that lives within their means should have enough to build and equip a shop. Your FIL should have more assets than the farm, if your wife was his only off spring. You seem very confident that she will get it all and you know more about that then the rest of us. I do know, it can take a long time for someone to die when you are waiting for it to happen. This has been a bit harsh but do want it to get you thinking. Probably some of the best advice I received from my father, who had been a bank employee through the thirties was; "Do not build on property that you do not own."

LAA · Mar 3, 2011

Personally, I would never count on anyones income but my own. I noticed that the older my Wife gets the less interested she is in working 7 days a week. She has made it pretty clear that she intends on spending her later years with the grandchildren and doing things she always wanted to do. Most men that like to farm and fool with livestock were raised to it and don't much care about doing anything else, myself included, I hope to be able to tend livestock and bale a little hay till I'm fertilizer myself. Most Women don't share this grand vision, maybe your Wife does, good luck.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 3, 2011

I have to wonder why the sheep are not making a profit. Around here sheep almost always pencil out better than cows, for the guys that know how and are willing to do the work. Also, and this may be a regional thing but 150 acres seems small for full time. One of my neighbors grows 1600 arces of wheat part time, and he has a full time job as a firefighter on the west coast, but he knows the business well and seems to have enough money to roll with the punches. Also it seeems you are not only thinking about farming and also starting a ag repair business, so 2 things I suspect you never have done before. Only you get to decide but I would not leave a good job 1/2 the way through my working years to go into such risk. Nothing sadder than a 50 year old that has mortgaged away the farm, having to start all over again.

jackinok · Mar 3, 2011

have to agree with the others, if you cant quit your job now and live ,how are you going to start not only one but TWO new buisnesses?farming is a buisness not a hobby,and if you think you work long hours now ,wait until you start working on someone elses equipment and they need theirs out of your shop as bad as you need to be out running yours!! Kind of like a fisherman owning the bait house,you cant fish if your in the shop selling bait!!heres a thought,,put son to work,,if he's in anyway interested.let him help grandpa,and let grandpa show him how to do.he's plenty old enough.then you help them when possible or when he has a big job.4-5 hours after school would make a big dent in those feeding and maintenance chores that take up so much of your time.let grandpa supervise.Pay him a wage and put part up for college.like my old daddy used to say "you (he) wont learn any younger"..

Goose · Mar 3, 2011

You have no guarantee that your wife will inherit the farm till it actually happens. Your father-in-law could have a lingering/catastrophic illness or event that would take it all, etc.

Also, he could simply pull the rug out from under you, like my FIL did me. I was farming the family farm from my side of the family as a sideline, and always assumed when my FIL quit farming I'd have first shot at taking over his operation and combining the two farms into one full time deal.

One day when he was 70, my FIL simply walked in, announced he'd decided to retire and had leased the farm to one of the neighbors. So much for my plans. The cold, hard fact is that until your FIL dies, the farm is his to do with as he pleases. And he could outlive you.

samnel l bontregger · Mar 3, 2011

KEEP YOUR DAY JOB

Geo-TH,In · Mar 3, 2011

My daddy said, farming is an expensive hobby.

36 Coupe · Mar 3, 2011

Ditto as much as I love farming its the wrong way to jump.

S.Crum · Mar 3, 2011

Look at your own situation first. How committed is your wife. Is she honestly interested in the farming way of life? Or just going along with it for her Dad's sake and to appease you? That second thought won't last, count on it.
Unless you are a minority or an illegal, forget about any grants or low interest loans.
A fool goes farming today, and you won't make bill money trying to run a shop too, way too many people want $500 worth the work done for 50 bucks, or want to pay you 10 bucks a week for the next 50 weeks. Pretty risky business giving up a good paying steady job in these times.

Tony S. · Mar 3, 2011

One suggestion on the repair business. Forget the shop. Put together a mobile rig. Work in other people's shops. Fraction of the overhead. Totally choose your own hours. No need to have someone there for walk ins. Run it from the cell phone. I've been doing this for 10 years with my welding business. Very low overhead.

Pops1532 · Mar 3, 2011

If you're working 60 hours a week making pretty good money, and your wife makes almost as much as you, and you can't afford to put up a shop I have to think you're living a bit beyond your means.
I don't know much about farming, but I do know you're not going to make much off of 154 acres. I agree with those that said to rent out the land.
Starting one business is hard enough. Don't try to start two.
Unless you downright hate your job, I can't imagine anyone quitting a 60 hour a week job that pays good to start their own business in this lousy economy. But hey, we all have dreams. If you really want to start a shop start cutting your living expenses so you can live off your wife's income while you get started. Sock some money away so you don't bury yourself in debt to start your business. Before you build a shop on the farm make sure you won't have zoning issues. Its one thing to work on your own equipment on the farm, but another thing to work on customer's equipment there.
Have you considered what running your own business really entails? You may think it's about doing mechanical work. That's just the tip of the iceburg. You'll spend way more time talking to suppliers, insurance agents, billing, paying bills, cleaning the shop, maintaining shop equipment, recruiting customers, etc than you can possibly imagine. You will be a businessman not a mechanic. If you have much success you'll need to hire mechanics and concentrate more on the "business" side of things.

VicS · Mar 3, 2011

I have a neighbor who is 30 or 31, He started with nothing but a burning desire to succeed. He started working for a trucking co. as a mechanic about 8 yrs ago. When they was riging up a service truck he told them he would buy the truck and they would buy the tools, they agreed. In so many years the tools, welder and aircompressor etc. would be his. When this time was up he quit. (he had been working out with it every night). During this time he has bought and sold a farm, and built a new house. Now he has a big shop (50X100?) He now has 2 service trucks and is building another one. and runs at least 2 trucks hauling asphalt,grain etc. So he has 4 or 5 employees. You can go up there now and the lights will be on. So you just have to decide what you want to do, trust in God, and never look back. He farms a little too. Vic

VicS · Mar 3, 2011

I have a neighbor who is 30 or 31, He started with nothing but a burning desire to succeed. He started working for a trucking co. as a mechanic about 8 yrs ago. When they was riging up a service truck he told them he would buy the truck and they would buy the tools, they agreed. In so many years the tools, welder and aircompressor etc. would be his. When this time was up he quit. (he had been working out with it every night). During this time he has bought and sold a farm, and built a new house. Now he has a big shop (50X100?) He now has 2 service trucks and is building another one. and runs at least 2 trucks hauling asphalt,grain etc. So he has 4 or 5 employees. You can go up there now and the lights will be on. So you just have to decide what you want to do, trust in God, and never look back. He farms a little too. Vic

JDseller · Mar 3, 2011

I would think long and hard before I tried this at your age. I have been in the farm equipment repair business for close to forty years. It is changing. There are fewer smaller farms and farmers. My customer base keeps getting smaller. The city/part timers usually do their own repairs or will not pay fair shop rates. So look around your FIL farm and see what size the farms are. If they are big grain farm you will not get much repair business. They tend to run newer equipment that is under warranty. Also it is new enough that unless your are trained on that line of equipment you are not going to be able to fix it.

I own over three hundred tillable acres and have seventy-five brood cow besides doing all of the repair business I can get PAID for. I still drive truck in the winter to help on the income front.

Don"t get PO at me for this next statement. You are working at a good factory job. Your are used to that security of someone else worrying about meeting payroll. It is a whole another world doing that 365 days a year for yourself. Yes it can be rewarding but it also could be the end of your marriage. If you make this step and you can not make a similar income to what you are doing now then it will really stress your marriage. Plus what are the odds of you getting that good factory job back if your repair business does not work out???

I would start doing some of it part time. Then see what is going on. I would not count on that farm being ours until the deed is in your name. Your FIL could use up a 150 acre farm if he suddenly needed full time nursing home care. Why are you just starting to get involved on the farm now??? Most that make a go of it,not a hobby, have started way before now.

You can build a pretty good shop and equip it with the basics for under $50,000. That is just about what a good diesel pickup is new. If you can"t scratch that up then you are way under capitalized. You need to work a while longer and cut your living cost back. Build a savings to reach your goal. Don"t think I am all negative on anyone wanting to start their own business. I just have seen too many fail because they did not have all of the pieces together.

ted regentin · Mar 3, 2011

All of the replies that caution you against doing what you have in mind are all absolutely true. You could do the safe thing, keep your factory job until you retire and wonder WHAT IF??? That is what happened to me. My dad offered me the family farm with equiptment and everything, with the only stipulation that I had to provide a place to live for him and mom for as long as they wanted. I turned it down twenty five years ago and the family farm that my great grandfather cleared is now part of some corporate farm. Yea, I doing fine, I own a business, I have good kids, but I will always wonder... I say that IF your wife is on the same page, IF you can adjust your standard of living, IF you can either work part time or come up with a way to start your repair business in an affordable manner, then GO FOR IT!!! If someone hadn't had the guts to sail out of sight of land then America never would have been discovered.
My two cents worth, and that is probably all it is worth.

David G · Mar 3, 2011

Keep your day job. My buddy and I have more than full time jobs and farm 240 acres. It is all we want to do. You will not make a living off 160 acres. Renting the ground is easy money if it is tillable.

kyhayman · Mar 3, 2011

Two income family with one dependent making pretty good money..... I'd put a tight pencil to the family budget and see how much you can save and how fast. First step is to pay off debt, all of it, ASAP. Interest is just money poured away. Then save up enough for the shop, get it built, then think about farming full time. I dont know if pretty good is 25,000 or 50,000 by your measure, or more. It doesnt matter. Switch to living on one income and using the other for debt retirement and savings.

I walked away from a good professional career a few years ago after working two full time jobs (farm and regular job) at about the same age you are. Even with everything paid off its been an adjustment. The pay cut was right at half but to me, it was worth it. Life doesnt have a rewind button. But, if I hadnt spent 20 years paying off debt I coudlnt have done it. I still follow the same rule, live on half my take home.

JDMAN60 · Mar 4, 2011

Thanks a lot guys you have given me a lot of things to think about. I was raised on a small hobby farm and have been around it all of my life. I had a service rig set up once years ago but dropped it because I got married and moved to this farm. With all the work I had to do around here I just did not have time to travel around working on equipment for others. The thing is until this past year I got NO money for anything I done here. My day job is very boring with a lot of time to set and think about things I wish I could be getting done at home. The farm is in very good shape but if I don't find some time to get after things they will soon go down hill. Fences are becoming overgrown, buildings needing repair. I know the farm is too small to make a living on but can not add to it ( purchase or rent) if I cannot keep up with what I already have. I think the best advice here is to keep the day job and pay off all my debt and do the best I can at keeping things going. I just can't let all the buildings and machinery set for a few years while I rent the ground out to a neighbor because things will deteriorate to the point of no return. I hate to see farms setting empty, if you take the livestock out of the buildings they will soon die. For now I will keep looking to the future and do the best I can. Thanks again William

Sparktrician · Mar 4, 2011

JDMAN60, my advice is different than the others here. If YOU BELIEVE (not think...BELIEVE) that you can succede at the farm, and have the ambition to do it, by all means go for it. If you dont, well, dont.

My wife and I started our electrical contracting buisness when I was 22 years old. I got my masters license at 23. I was the youngest to get my masters in Ohio. We have made a go of it plus taking over my grandpas farm. Mostly without her working.

It can be done, there will be some rough days though....and if she isnt in it to win it.....well its really gonna be rought....good luck.

4 bottem · Mar 4, 2011

Keep the job, rent out all but 10 acres and play on that. 10 acres cures my spring plowing lust and its plenty to play with. A 756 and 4 16s works out just right. "when is ceases to be fun your usually done". This keeps me from backsliding into full time farming.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 4, 2011

Id keep my job until retirement, get your son involved hes already or soon will be old enough to do plenty of farm work, Look to pick up some additional ground either by owning or renting, if you want to make it go Id say in ten years when your 55 and your boy is 22 you will have a good retirement plan (in farming) and your son will have a good nest egg as well. Get rid of those sheep, haha

Pair-a-dice farm · Mar 4, 2011

I too would keep my job in town. I was in your shoes 12 years ago, I quit my job and bought a poultry farm. The cash flow was there and I put 1 boy through college. My wife continued to work and me and my youngest son took care of everything. It worked out pretty well until 2 years ago. The poultry company was going to require me to spend about $250K in order to keep my contract. I was lucky to have had paid down my debt and had a buyer. I now run cattle on 300 acres and everything is paid for but I still had to find a job to pay taxes, insurance and more college for my youngest.
The agriculture markets are pretty good now but politics can change that over night. Old equipment breaks down often and 150 acres ain't much anymore

I need advice ( kinda long)

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