Need advice on wiring my shop

Paul Shuler · Feb 24, 2011

I'm in the process of running some outlets and some lighting in my 36' x 40' pole barn shop. When cleaning out some stuff that was my dads after he passed away I got some wire he had stashed back over the years. Most of it is 10/2 and 12/2 wire. My question is this. As I unrolled the longest roll of 12/2 wire [maybe 150'] I notice it has a black wire and a white wire but no ground wire. I have never used any wire like this. Is this something I can use or should I avoid using it. With the price of wire these days I hate to toss it if it's ok to use in my application. Sorry to ask such a lay person question. Wish I would have payed more attention when Pop tried to show me things.
Thank you,
Paul Shuler

Anonymous-0 · Feb 24, 2011

Do not use, no ground if no bare wire, not up to code. Also if it is romex type wire you can not use in a shop, unless you are sheetrocking over.
Scrap it out and use the money to buy new wire.

Paul Shuler · Feb 24, 2011

I'll have to look again but I think it is romex. If it was romex but with a ground would it be OK then.

old art · Feb 24, 2011

in your shop it is best to use conduit for protection of the wires and add a ground wire also there are books out there on how to do it
safety first dont skimp provide for a welder and air compressor old art

MarkB_MI · Feb 24, 2011

I think it is acceptable to run without a ground in a circuit protected by a GFCI. Personally I would not use it. Wire is relatively cheap, now that copper has come down in price. You're only going to do this once so do it right. Conduit is really the right way to do it. Also, all those outlets need a GFCI.

Bryan inIowa · Feb 24, 2011

220,221 ,whatever it takes ,,,,lol sorry ,,had to toss that in

huntingreen2day · Feb 24, 2011

What code article says you can't use Romex in a shop and that it has to be covered by sheetrock? Where is the word sheetrock in the code at all? If it is 2 wire Romex I really doubt it is has the proper insulation on it because it is old.

Plumcrazy · Feb 25, 2011

Mr. Mom!

TGIN · Feb 25, 2011

I worked as a elec. helper when I was 16-17 . We did alot of barns and grain bins and other farm work . We had a guy that had his own wire like you have and wanted us to use it . We just ran it in conduit with another single 14# wire for ground , he did not save any money because he had to buy the conduit and a roll of 14# . Talk to a guy one time that said he used the conduit as the ground , I DO NOT think these are good ideas . If it was me I would burn the insulation off of it and sell it for scrap and buy new wire .

Ken Macfarlane · Feb 25, 2011

Conduit as ground is not code in US or Canada

TGIN · Feb 25, 2011

I know that and is why I said dont do it . Just telling what a guy did back when . Also back then the county code for AG buildings was a few pieces of paper you could fold up and put in your pocket , you could do about anything you wanted to do and some of the guys did !

Mike (WA) · Feb 25, 2011

Wouldn't it be OK for incandescent lights? The porcelin fixtures aren't grounded, neither are the switches, IIRC.

Anonymous-0 · Feb 25, 2011

Take a look at NEC 250.118.

Uncle Ernice · Feb 25, 2011

Not code. The metal in a switch, box or fixture must be connected to a ground.
The value of that wire is in the copper. If you want to be up to code that is.

El Toro · Feb 25, 2011

You should talk to a licensed electrician in your area so you're within the code. Even have him to inspect it. It may cost you a few dollars, but it will be money well spent. Hal

John T · Feb 25, 2011

For shop use wheres theres likely a concrete floor and metal cased tools and equipment I WOULD NOT USE TWO WIRE NON GROUND EQUIPPED CIRCUITS PERIOD. If you value you or your kids lives whats the harm in using proper three wire grounded circuits. A person could run conduit and add the extra third equipment ground wire if you insist upon using that old romex

John T Retired Electrical Design Engineer

Mike (WA) · Feb 25, 2011

We use plastic boxes here- don't think you could ground a light fixture if you wanted to. But you're right- better use up to date stuff, or it makes the whole job look suspicious.

That must be really old wire- I've been buying wire from time to time for over 40 years, and all I can ever remember is 2 conductors with bare ground wire included.

Paul Shuler · Feb 25, 2011

Thanks for all the replys. I will toss that old two wire stuff on the burn pile and see if I cant make a few bucks off of the copper. You all told me pretty much what I thought. Just know some of you guys have so much more knowlegde than I. No one ever ask about doing MRI scans on here so I don"t ever get to help anyone. But I know when I ask a question on here I always get answers that are very helpful. When I get it all done I"ll post a photo with the lights on. Been working in the dark for 5 years. Side note. Man that 10/2 wire is sure tough to bend around and pull with cold hands.

Bob M · Feb 25, 2011

Amen, John!!

kyhayman · Feb 25, 2011

We cut corners on the shop wiring at my dads place in 1991. Regular 3 wire romex to the plugs and fixtures. What a pain, rodents chewing on it in the walls, etc. Barely half the plugs and lights work any more. Now, when I do anything like that in farm buildings I go ahead and pay the extra to use 4 wire SS flex wrapped. Its not to bad by the roll at Granger and it is a life time, one time investment if put in correctly.

Paul Shuler · Feb 25, 2011

Hey John, can I ask one more question that will show my ignorance. What was this two wire 12/2 wire ever used for. Not sure where my dad got it or how long it had been out in his shed. On of the post above mentioned mice chewing on the wires. I had not even considered that.

massey 333 · Feb 25, 2011

I would have to disagree on saying if it doesn't have a bare wire then there is no ground.Close to 95% of the wire I have bought in the last 15-20 yrs.has had a insulated Green Gr.wire.6-8-10 & 12 Ga.has had the covered Gr.,Most of the 14Ga.has a bare Gr..That is in 1000Ft.spools.

Bryan inIowa · Feb 25, 2011

Yes,,,what a classic !

teddy52food · Feb 25, 2011

A few years ago, we tore down an old house that had the 2 wire romex in it. THat is what they used in the 40's when electricy came to the rural areas.

Mike (WA) · Feb 25, 2011

Old houses with "knob and tube" only ran 2 wires, and the outlets were not grounded. Theory, I think, was that it grounded through the neutral. The early days of Romex carried that practice forward. Not real big on safety in those days.

I was working for a guy one time, using an old Skil saw (metal case), an extension cord with the ground lug broken off, in the rain. I kept getting shocked. I mentioned it to him, we had a little discussion, and came to the mutual conclusion that maybe this wasn't the right job for me.

Need advice on wiring my shop

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