NYs New Outside Wood Boiler Regulations

Adirondack case guy

Well-known Member
Here in Rural NY, outside boilers have been very popular for residential, farm, and light commercial heating. A little over a year ago the state Department of Enviromental Conservation (DEC) announced that there would be a ban on the use of OWBs, if they didn't meet strict polution requirements simular to pellet stoves. It ment that if you had one , you could no longer use it. This needless to say caused an uproar. DEC backed off a bit and held some hearings, however 3 days before Christmas 2010, and a week before a new govenor was to be sworn in, the outgoing head of the DEC crammed new regulations down our throats. It states that for the time being, no new OWBs can be sold after April 15, 2011 that don't meet DEC polution standards. Also the OWBs will have to be installed in compliance with new setbacks, (property lines, buildings etc.). They will all be required to have a minimum stack heigth of 18'. The DEC in a statment at the end of December said that these were temperary measures and it was their goal to ban the use of all non compliant boilers in the future. This leaves users with recently purchased equipment, and dealers with $$$$$ of inventory in a financial crises. Also manufactures are having to scramble to meet compliance with new models, and who is going to certify compliance? This act will also increasing our dependance on non renewable fuels. Fortunately we have a new commisioner in charge of the DEC, and hopefully he will have his head tilted down further than the former commisioner.
 
I 'll probably get flamed for this but I am 600 ft downwind from my neighbors and I do get tired of being smoked out by his. On certain days the smoke lays on the ground and just hangs there.
 
I dont really understand what the problem is with OWBs. Is it that sometimes they smoke alot, or the chimminy being to short. What is the differance with a indoor wood stove, it dosent smoke as much sometimes maybe?, when I burn mine off in the morning it smokes pretty good, (Mine is a 70s style black box) made in Cobleskill. Or the chimminy is higher? Is it green wood some burn in OWBs? wood smoke is wood smoke, How can one style stove polluate more than another? I read something in Country Folks about that law and it dident really make sense. And talk about air pollution I cant tell you how many times I see state/county dump trucks, and trucke ideling along the road/thruway, ect so they can fix something, or what ever there doing. 5 trucks to put up a new stop sign. It seems to me like there going after one problem, but over here or there theres 20 other problems are going on.?? J
 
I don't like superfluous "blanket" laws in general, but . .

I see the new regs as not all-bad. But, it would make more sense at a local level with town-adopted regs - not State regs.

Forcing EPA efficiency regs onto what are sold as "wood stoves" made a big difference in efficiency. The new stoves are much better . . . as compared to the 70s "air tight" stoves . . . but also cost a heck of a lot more.
Many house-fires were caused by mis-use of air-tight stoves.

Many of the outdoor wood furnaces are very old technology and waste a lot of wood. And, many have been installed in non-rural neighborhoods - 50 feet from neighbors who are getting smoked out. For those situations, the 18 foot chimneys should of been required long ago.

But for people like me, that have lots of land, and hardwoods, and have no close neighbors? It's nobody's business but my own (in my opinion).

I tried to buy an EPA-rated wood-furnace 5 years ago and at that time there was only one in the entire world. EPA Caddy made in Québec. I tried to buy one but they would not sell to me here in NY.

I'm glad to see some regs on the big smoking fuel wasters. But, I don't think they should apply to everyone. Just the people in neighborhoods with houses within 50 feet on both sides.

Same with the new NY brush burning laws. I can be in the middle of my 100 acres and can get arrested if I burn some brush? Rediculous. Thanks Chuck Shumer, Hilary Clinton, etc. et. al.
 
I can see your point JD, were you live than do what you like, but I guess when there the OWB is that close to another persons house the smoke could be a problem. Also how would a 18' chimminy stanp up in high winds? Maybe itd be ok!
 
The problem is - many outdoor burners have been installed only 50 feet away from neighbors with smokestacks only 6 feet from ground level. You don't find indoor woodstoves installed that way. So yeah, smoke is a huge issue in some areas where houses are close together. There are at least half-a-dozen like that just in our small village-center. In addition, many people with outdoor furnaces regard them as safe and fireproof and are much less careful about the stuff they burn in them (like wet and green wood).

Even worse, since many have those outdoor burners hooked to their domestic water heating, they keep them going even when the weather is warm and the smoke doesn't rise. I've driven though entire neighborhoods smoked out by one furnace when temps are 50 degrees outside.
 
Believe it or not the militant vegetarians and tree huggers and Sierra Club leftists are realy getting in an uproar over cow farting which is also destroying the planet in their minds so its no surprise to hear about all those pesky smoke belching wood burners doing likewise. Look out, the EPA is coming after us all but the snail darters n spotted owls n blind fish and other politically correct species (unlike low life humans) will be saved yayyyyyyyyyyyy lol

God Bless yall n keep warm

John T
 
I agree with you. If you put something in the air, keep it on your property. I want to breath clean air. Smoke of any kind gives me an instant headache.

I'm sure some will give me many boos for this.

I don't understant why many people want to put a large carbon footprint on this planet. If they were to spend money on, high efficency heat pumps, furnaces, insulation, windows and doors, they get a tax credit and wouldn't need to spend money on a high dollar outside furnace. Not mention, they wouldn't have to work so hard cutting wood. I've know many people killed cutting fire wood.

Now sock it to me:)
George
 
I suspect it would have to have metal cables or rod supports. I have a 14 foot chimney coming out of my roof and it has three guy-cables hooked to it. That's 14 foot above the roof and another 8 foot inside -so it's actually a 22 foot chimney.

18 feet is a lot, but it makes some sense since the outdoor furnaces are sitting at ground level.

If you've got a woodstove at ground-level in a two story house - it's going to have at least an 18 foot total chimney in total, and probably more.
 
Have you ever seen one of them when the blower first kicks on after it's been damped down for a while? Yea it's woodsmoke, but some of them produce really thick clouds of it. Around here many of the incorporated municipalities have banned installation of new ones.

There are well designed outdoor furnaces. They're more expensive but cleaner and much more efficient.
Gasification discussion
 
Quite often those animal protective-regs backfire.

I know several property owners in Florida that kill certain endangered animals if found. That in fear of somebody finding out they own "rare aninmal" habitat. One guy I know got caught recently - killing some rare Jay birds and some rare species of turtles on his Gulf-coast land in Florida.

I've got a similar fear with some NY Adirondack lands I own and the rare "Spruce Grouse."
 
Well to be fair, here in NY just about all our electricity comes from coal-burning plants.

In case you haven't noticed, people get killed digging coal too. And, it also adds many pollutants to the air.

In reality, the so-called "high efficiency" heat pumps in cold areas of NY, are not very efficient at all - and rely on a lot of electricity made from coal fires.

For somebody who has access to a wood source, and enough land so they don't smoke out their neighbors - burning wood makes good sense. And unlike coal, it's a renewable resource.
 
I have an outside wood burner to heat my home and my business. If I didn't have, I don't know what I would do for heat. I simply cannot afford $7000.00 a year for propane to heat my business and another 500.00 a month to heat my house.I am just thankful that I live in a place that we don't have zoning laws,regulations on everything that we do, and good neighbors that don't complain about everything.
 
The bottom line is the DEC is more interested in there own high paying jobs and bennys than they are about the taxpayer. It's called empire building. They have got to make it look like they are doing something but we know better.
 
George, I don"t like smoke either. I don"t like big brother even more. I live in rural Iowa. They have talked about making a state law on outdoor wood stoves here. I had one for many years. I only burnt good seasoned wood and never had that much smoke. Plus I am 1/2 mile from the nearest neighbor. I now use a corn burning water boiler. Even with the higher corn price I still like it better. There never is a lot of smoke off of it.
I agree with set back regulations. That just makes sense. I go by the small towns here and see a house on a town lot with a outdoor stove setting as far as they can get it away from their house. That puts it closer to the neighbor. This should be outlawed. Too many selfish people today.
My son"s stove is twenty feet from his back door. That is as close as the insurance company would still count it as being outside.
 
yes, my stove is in the basement, but its in the center of the house and is a masonary chimminy, This is my kitchen stove a fireplace insert, above the cellar stove, 2 seperate flues. The flu for this stove has a ss liner in it. I Went from 13"x22" down to 8" round ss. inside the clay liner, and hooked it to the stove with flexable ss going threw the fireplace damper. Works good.
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The county here passed new regs a few years back demanding that the chimneys be at least 17 feet tall if memory serves me right. Mostly because somebody in a town had one and my ex sister in law was complaining about the smoke til they gave in.
Other than the neighbor that she had the problem with,I don't know of anybody who's followed or enforced any of the new rules.
 
As I see it, the problem is that regulations must be written for the lowest common denominator. For example, I have a neighbor that has a OWB, and he is a contractor. He burns anything he can, treated wood, construction debris, even plastic. I don't live real close to this guy, but he is a pia those that are. Every community has a few idiots.
 
I can understand the reasoning, but the implementation my not be so desirable, however, someone who is being "smoked out" would disagree.

There is widespread use of wood boilers here too, dealers seem to have plenty of them on hand too, every one I see that sells them, seems to have a dozen on hand or more, for those, new and immediate regulations hit hard.


I live on a hill, and for years, I have been smoked out by neighbors, often times it reeks of smoldering garbage, or something thereof, un seasoned wood or what have you. I don't care what apparatus a person may use, you need to know how to manage or operate your firebox, both fuel and combustion, because the result coming out your stack, is directly effected by it. This smoke, whenever present, forces one to close their windows and prevents you from being outside, it's really obtrusive. More and more, people are just incoherent, no common sense, no ability, no thought process, no attention to detail, always in a hurry, 30 second gratification, society is full of it, with that mentality, you're going to have people cutting trees and tossing same directly into a wood boiler, regardless of what will be produced as a result of the combustion of same.

I know nothing of wood boilers, and I do not know how or why they differ in the fact that many people fuel them with wood that is not suitable for a stove, green, wet or what have you. If someone can get away with something they will, so if this practices creates heat/hot water etc. without splitting, drying and or preparing the wood fuel to burn cleanly and efficiently, they're gonna do it every time, creating the smoke problem, which leads to regulation.

Does it take all that much knowledge, experience to understand that your wood needs to be dry, your fire managed, so that it burns clean ? Now with wind conditions and lack there of where the smoke will linger, do you just ignore that, to heck with others who may be nearby ? I think the chimney height is reasonable, even then smoke can just settle, or be pushed back down, all depends on the weather.

In my experience, this house has 2 large fireplaces, and a wood stove in the cellar, 24" x 24" flues, 8"x12" flues, wood stove and oil furnace, large masonry chimneys and I am on a hill. I burn wood to heat the basement, and under the 1st floor, as much as possible,the fireplaces are enclosed with combustion air intake from outside, both have heat-o-lators (lower fans/vents) though I have not used them in years, they do consume quite a bit of wood. I source my would from either of our farms or where ever its easy to obtain. Being alone, it is not easy to get it done, often times its in log length, bucked, and handsplit, dried further near the stove, then used. Some years I have enough dry, others I don't. I have mixed various moisture content wood, some totally dry, with say higher moisture content, which controls the fire, my old Ashley is like a blast furnace, it will turn the smoke pipe red hot if you load it up with dry wood, so you take care in its use, an air tight may be or would obviously be better, but it works for me, the heat it produces is overwhelming or can be, it is instant too. The only time I get excessive smoke is when starting a new fire, cold flue etc., once going, you add the dry wood and top off with say some black cherry, or something that has been cut but not split, you may get a little sizzle, add more dry if needed, check the stack and see whats what, flue temp etc., properly done or monitored, the smoke is minimal and most times non existent,(clear) when real cold, looks like steam, or similar to the furnace flue, no creosote build up worth mentioning, flue cleanings produce a small quantity, like 1/3 of a small bucket. I keep that flue temperature up and burn various states of seasoned wood, or as dry as you can get, I've tried all kinds of mixtures, if all dry/seasoned, you just can't load er up, she burns it faster, and hotter, so its why I do like putting a big chunk of hardwood on top, even if not completely seasoned, black cherry is nice for this the flue does not lie. I do not like smoking out my neighbors, and sometimes the the start up will do that. Ideally I would prefer all wood to be seasoned 100%, a better stove and or control the oxygen, then again I like my ole Ashley I know I'll get some flack here for this but working with what you have on hand, using care and having consideration for others, I try like heck to keep my fire burning clean, my flue is probably 20+ feet up, nice to see when coming up my road, knowing a fire is burning and little or no visible smoke.

Burn barrels, same way, people have ruined it for others because they do not use them efficiently for things that would be suitable to burn in them, dry wood, small increments of paper not all at once, cardboard etc. ( paper and cardboard, does send up lots of ash sparks, smoldering paper etc.) vs garbage, plastic, or whatever they feel like burning, often times smoldering away and creating a real problem for others, happens here often or it did, til Rensselaer county banned it, I still use mine regardless, but in a way that does not create excess smoke and when it will carry away, not linger, more so when cold so people do not have windows open, just common sense, it's what people do not seem to possess these days !
 
As far as private property rights versus some endangered species regulations, Ive heard of some legal defenses working their way through the courts concerning "taking" without just compensation. In other words if the Government passes a law that severely limits the property owners rights to do with the his land as he so pleases or if it significantly reduces its value thats argueably a "taking" and the Government has to pay compensation such as purchasing the land for its fair market value.

Its an uphill battle if one has to hire an attorney however. Ive fought the Fed before and its really tough especially for a Country Lawyer, I couldnt beat them grrrrrrrrrr

John T
 
Yes, but the state of Florida is more protective of peronsal property rights than many other states in the USA. Florida has put strict limits on certain versions of Emminent Domain, whereas New York has virtually none.

New York as a version often called "Quick Take" Emminent Domain. Basically, it means "take now" and "ask questions later." It is highly abused.

Here in NY, if somebody takes your land by "Quick Take", and later a court finds it was an improper taking - you NEVER get your land back. Just might be awarded some extra dollars for it. To me, that is absurd. As I understand it, the state of Florida does not allow "Quick Take."
 
My house has seven chimneys and my barn/workshop has two. So in total, I've got a "really long" chimney system.

House (built in 1820) has three brick and rock chimneys that start upstairs. All built on top of "chimney closets." Then we've got the big wood furnace hooked to the stainless steel Canadian chimney. Then we've got a Rumsford wood-cooking fireplace and wood-fired bake oven-with dual clay-lined chimneys. Also got a 1920 wood cook stove in the kitchen with its own brick and flue chimney.

That's a lot of chimney cleaning come spring.
 
I guess so!lol, I like those old cook stoves,your lucky to have them, Do you cook on them anymore?
 
My wife does. She teaches wood cooking. Winter cooking in a wood stove, wood oven, and wood-cooking Rumsford fireplace. And summer cooking on oil-stoves. That's the way it was commonly done in the 1800s.
 
The most people run those outside boilers. Turning them into stinking, smoking short stacked smog boxes. It's a wonder they haven't been banned already.
 
JD, might as well show the backside of the wood stove insert. The fireplace went from the kitchen threw into the living room? So I put doors on this side, the back of the wood stove is about half way in there. As you can see Im painting the living room. Over the years the smoke from the fireplace stained the paint. Mostlythe celing, which I painted this past week.
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Could check the European standards and designs. Franklin stoves original design was meant to burn smoke that came out of English pattern fireplaces and used about 3 times the wood of German/Russian/Polish tile stoves. A Finnish design was featured last year in a architechural magazine- had passed some California standards, noted to be usable in New York State and Boston area. Semi traditional stone and tile, 2 story high, clost to center of house for one side and wood take somewhat green wood after fire had been started, outside air inlet from basement. 7 tons of mass if I recall and had a upper floor heat exchanger and cat insert. Fire burned hot and clean, S shaped chimney path, extra heat absorbed by stone mass and radiated after fire died down. Available as a outside wood burner- water piping in outer part of mass and then insulated-- but not cheap, the only example of outside use was in Boston area and heated some kind of University housing and research building. Cost of construction may have been from a government grant-read Taxpayer pocket- Chinese, Indian and Japanese have some outside heater designs that burn some wood and trash- free flow air and lots of mass. RN
 
Your wife teaches wood stove cooking! Thats pretty neat, my wife got me a book called Wood Stove Cookery At Home On The Range. Instering book, only I dont have a real cook stove, I use the thermo controls flat top. I use it almose everyday for cooking. Its a fun winter sport ;)!
 
I was in the great state of Oregon in 1990 during the spotted owl thing and a bumper sticker on a big log truck stated when you run out of paper wipe your A$$ on a spotted owl. Seemed to stick in my mind
Now for the Serria types reading here one thing the club would dearly like is no guns.

Bucikdeere said a mouth full about smog setting around your house in town.
 
I was in the great state of Oregon in 1990 during the spotted owl thing and a bumper sticker on a big log truck stated when you run out of paper wipe your A$$ on a spotted owl. Seemed to stick in my mind
Now for the Serria types reading here one thing the club would dearly like is no guns.

Bucikdeere said a mouth full about smog setting around your house in town.
 
With tongue in cheek----maybe there could be a FIRE SALE for the unsold and unacceptable units to those living in other areas. They might be a HOT item.
 
jhill52,

I also get smoke from a neighboring business that burns wood among other things. It is 500' away and luckily I only get the smoke when the wind is from the southeast. I can tell right away when they burn their garbage, plastic stuff and pieces of railroad ties.
 
I live at least a mile from any other houses, and while I would like to have an OWS I don't want to walk out of my house into a cloud of smoke or my outdoor pets have to live in it, so I checked on more efficient clean burning stoves and I ran into the same as other posters; there are none.
The problems with them as I understand it is the water jacket causes the burn box to be too cold and a short chimney.
I ran across a stove that appears to have fixed these problems, but it's an indoor wood boiler.
Haven't seen a price except $165 a month. Don't know anything about quality or if it works as stated, maybe somebody on here already owns one.
A friend made his chimney out of a heavy gage steel pipe that he stuck in the ground and cut a hole in the side for a pipe.
stove
 
This should have been left to local zoning and Town ordinances, same with the burn barrels. The more the leftists and socialist in the state do to ruin the lives of the common man, the more they build the dissent and thoughts of separating Western, Central and Northern NY from the Capital District and "Upstate" area. I personally would have no problem chopping everything 100 miles north of NYC off and making it it's own state. Instead, we get NYC running the state with no thought to the rest of us.
 
You would complain if a factory were next door to you stinking up the air. What is the difference when individuals are producing air polution?

There is an alternative to burning wood. Install high efficiency furnace, geo heat pumps, insulate, up grade windows and doors and get a tax credit.

I did that 20 years ago. I have a 2100 sq ft house and last month"s electric bill was $230.

I"ve know 3 people who have gotten killed cutting wood.

If you knew the cancer causing chemicals produced by burning wood and trash, you may change your mind. It is not a local issue, it is a world issue!
 
I have launched a website: DirtyAviston.com in order to educate the public on the Outdoor Wood Boiler (OWB) also known as the Outdoor Wood Furnace (OWF). I live next door to an OWB/OWF and my property and health have been damaged by the smoke this thing produces. Check-out DirtyAviston.com. Knowlwege is power! P.S. I have used a wood stove for 15+ years, there is a world of difference between the indoor wood stove and the OWB/OWF.
 

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